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RE: Trivial Trivia - taking trivia to new levels - David Lockmiller - 10-26-2020 04:15 PM
(10-26-2020 01:23 PM)RJNorton Wrote:(10-23-2020 01:44 PM)David Lockmiller Wrote: How did President Lincoln “keep alive” within his December 8, 1863 Proclamation of Amnesty and Reconstruction an implicit promise made to Frederick Douglass in their meeting at the White House in the summer of 1863?
Did this have anything to do with black soldiers receiving less pay than white soldiers?
In their meeting at the White House in the summer of 1863, Frederick Douglass said:
"Mr. Lincoln, I am recruiting colored troops. I have assisted in fitting up two regiments in Massachusetts, and am now at work in the same way in Pennsylvania, and have come to say this to you, sir, if you wish to make this branch of the service successful you must do four things:
"First -- You must give colored soldiers the same pay that you give white soldiers."
(Reminiscences of Abraham Lincoln by Distinguished Men of His Time, Chapter IX -- Frederick Douglass, page 187.)
Roger, in a manner of speaking, you are very close to the correct answer but your answer is not correct. Helpful hint: After first, comes second. And, it was President Lincoln's specific response to Frederick Douglass at the time to the second thing listed by Douglass that was the "implicit promise" that he “kept alive” within his December 8, 1863 Proclamation of Amnesty and Reconstruction.
RE: Trivial Trivia - taking trivia to new levels - David Lockmiller - 10-28-2020 07:10 AM
The answer is:
The Proclamation of Amnesty and Reconstruction
by the President of the United States of America
A PROCLAMATION.
WHEREAS, in and by the Constitution of the United States, it is provided that the President “shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offences against the United States, except in cases of impeachment;” and
Whereas, a rebellion now exists whereby the loyal state governments of several states have for a long time been subverted, and many persons have committed, and are now guilty of, treason against the United States; and
Whereas, with reference to said rebellion and treason, laws have been enacted by congress, declaring forfeitures and confiscation of property and liberation of slaves, all upon terms and conditions therein stated, and also declaring that the President was thereby authorized at any time thereafter, by proclamation, to extend to persons who may have participated in the existing rebellion, in any state or part thereof, pardon and amnesty, with such exceptions and at such times and on such conditions as he may deem expedient for the public welfare . . . .
I, ABRAHAM LINCOLN, President of the United States, do proclaim, declare, and make known to all persons who have, directly or by implication, participated in the existing rebellion, except as hereinafter excepted, that a full pardon is hereby granted to them and each of them, with restoration of all rights of property, except as to slaves, and in property cases where rights of third parties shall have intervened, and upon the condition that every such person shall take and subscribe an oath, and thenceforward keep and maintain said oath inviolate; and which oath shall be registered for permanent preservation, and shall be of the tenor and effect following, to wit:–
“The persons excepted from the benefits of the foregoing provisions are . . . all who have engaged in any way in treating colored persons, or white persons in charge of such, otherwise than lawfully as prisoners of war, and which persons may have been found in the United States service as soldiers, seamen, or in any other capacity.”
And, thus, a "promise" made by President Abraham Lincoln to Frederick Douglass in the summer of 1863 was kept.
Question: What were the exact words on this subject that were spoken between the President of the United States, Abraham Lincoln, and Frederick Douglass on that day in the summer of 1863, according to the written words of Frederick Douglass himself?
Helpful hint: Reminiscences of Abraham Lincoln by Distinguished Men of His Time, Chapter IX -- Frederick Douglass.
RE: Trivial Trivia - taking trivia to new levels - David Lockmiller - 10-29-2020 09:20 AM
(10-28-2020 07:10 AM)David Lockmiller Wrote: Question: What were the exact words on this subject that were spoken between the President of the United States, Abraham Lincoln, and Frederick Douglass on that day in the summer of 1863, according to the written words of Frederick Douglass himself?
The following is my post #1 on the thread titled "Jim Mattis Was the Man Who Stood Against Torture."
I just submitted the following comment to an Op-Ed that was published in today's (December 21, 2018) New York Times:
During the American Civil War, Frederick Douglass had an interview with President Abraham Lincoln in the White House.
"Mr. Lincoln, I am recruiting colored troops. . . . If you wish to make this branch of the service successful you must do four things:
Fourth -- In case any colored soldiers are murdered in cold blood, you should retaliate in kind."
"To this little speech Mr. Lincoln listened with earnest attention and with very apparent sympathy, and replied to each point in his own peculiar, forcible way."
"Mr. Lincoln admitted the justice of my demand for the promotion of colored soldiers for good conduct in the field, but on the matter of retaliation he differed from me entirely. I shall never forget the benignant expression of his face, the tearful look of his eye and the quiver in his voice, when he deprecated a resort to retaliatory measures."
"Once begun," said he, "I do not know where such a measure would stop."
"He said he could not take men out and kill them in cold blood for what was done by others. If he could get hold of the persons who were guilty of killing the colored prisoners in cold blood, the case would be different, but he could not kill the innocent for the guilty."
(Source: "Reminiscences of Abraham Lincoln by Distinguished Men of His Time" collected and edited by Allen Thorndike Rice (1888) pages 186-189.)
The following is one paragraph from that published Op-Ed.
“Jim Mattis Was the Man Who Stood Against Torture”
Op-Ed by J. Kael Weston
General Mattis commanded troops in some of the bloodiest fronts of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. Yet he remained clear-eyed in his opposition to torture, arguing that it was inhumane, illegal and ineffective. I first met him in Anbar Province, Iraq, in 2004, when I was with the State Department overseeing American political engagement with Sunni leaders — and, when necessary, trying to restrain young and overly aggressive Marines. General Mattis’s reputation had preceded him. The “Warrior Monk” was an erudite scholar of warfare who gave famously profane pep talks to Marines. But he was also a natural statesman.
J. Kael Weston, the author of “The Mirror Test,” teaches at Marine Corps University in Quantico, Va., and at Westminster College in Salt Lake City.
The greatest of men and women think alike, in my opinion.
RE: Trivial Trivia - taking trivia to new levels - RJNorton - 12-06-2020 05:07 AM
Robert Lincoln sent Lucy Hale gifts. One of these gifts was a book. Robert and his Harvard classmate, F.P. Anderson., gave a book to Lucy Hale and a Miss Colby.
What was the name of the book?
RE: Trivial Trivia - taking trivia to new levels - AussieMick - 12-06-2020 01:16 PM
Kama Sutra ?
RE: Trivial Trivia - taking trivia to new levels - RJNorton - 12-06-2020 01:19 PM
I am sorry, Michael, but that is incorrect.
RE: Trivial Trivia - taking trivia to new levels - Rob Wick - 12-06-2020 02:29 PM
A book of Shakespeare?
Rob
RE: Trivial Trivia - taking trivia to new levels - RJNorton - 12-06-2020 03:05 PM
I am sorry, Rob, but it's not a book of Shakespeare.
RE: Trivial Trivia - taking trivia to new levels - Gene C - 12-06-2020 05:45 PM
was it a book of poetry?
RE: Trivial Trivia - taking trivia to new levels - RJNorton - 12-07-2020 04:58 AM
Yes, Gene! Can anyone give the title?
RE: Trivial Trivia - taking trivia to new levels - RJNorton - 12-07-2020 04:58 AM
Hint #1: My source for this was an article by Dr. Blaine Houmes.
RE: Trivial Trivia - taking trivia to new levels - Gene C - 12-07-2020 08:32 AM
There once was a lass from New Hampshire,
Who's heart a young actor did capture
She had culture and class
He was vain with a past
It was a relationship doomed not to last
Her parents said no,
But she loved him so,
and her parents didn't know what to do.
Her picture he always did carry
He had bragged that they one day would marry.
To others, he said the same
She'd find him untrue,
Left her broken hearted and blue
He had used her to find fortune and fame
By his actions some thought him insane,
To his family and friends he brought shame.
Left her broken hearted and blue
What could she do
She would never be quite the same.
Her parents tried to avoid the scandal
They decided this problem they would handle
They took her one night, with the moon shinning bright
And they carried her away off to Spain
(needs some work still, doesn't it?
So far the best title to this is, "Poems Robert Should Never Have Given To Lucy")
RE: Trivial Trivia - taking trivia to new levels - RJNorton - 12-07-2020 09:07 AM
I think you did a very good job, Gene!
Hint #2: The answer is in a journal titled Manuscripts, Volume 59, No. 1, 2007. The title of the individual article is "Lincoln & Booth: A Love Story?" The author is Dr. Blaine V. Houmes.
RE: Trivial Trivia - taking trivia to new levels - RJNorton - 12-08-2020 05:04 AM
I think I shall give the answer as it's very difficult, and it's also very hard to research. The correct answer is The Battle of Bunker Hill or The Temple of Liberty: An Historic Poem in Four Cantos by William Emmons. The book was printed in 1859.
RE: Trivial Trivia - taking trivia to new levels - Gene C - 12-08-2020 07:59 AM
Judging from the title, that's a sure fire poem to win a lady's heart.
Looks like I may have found the substance for chapter two of "Poems Robert Should Never Have Given to Lucy"
But that's not all.
Now you can own your very own copy of this classic poem.
Yes, your friends at Classic Reprint have searched the world over for a suitable copy to xerox, so you can have an affordable facsimile to enjoy. Be the first on your block to own this magnificent treasure and see the envy in the eyes of your friends and neighbors as they gaze in awe.
Yes, you can read the poem on Internet Archives,
https://archive.org/details/battleofbunkerhi01emmo/page/n7/mode/2up?q=william+emmonds+the+battle+of+bunker+hill+or+the+temple+of+liberty
But why do that when you can own your very own copy?
They say class and culture have no price, but thanks to your friends at Classic Reprint and Amazon, it does now, and it's only $9.57 plus shipping and handling.
https://www.amazon.com/Battle-Bunker-Hill-Liberty-Historic/dp/1331657814
Makes me wonder what might have happened if Robert Lincoln had given a copy of this book to John Wilkes Booth to give to Lucy Hale, and told him it was a sure fire way to gain Lucy's affection.
Or maybe he did.
Order yours today.