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RE: Extra Credit Questions - Gene C - 03-11-2013 05:48 PM
(03-11-2013 12:34 PM)Joe Di Cola Wrote: I highly recommend, as I have before, the Benjamin Thomas and Harold Hyman biography of Edwin Stanton. I have it on my list of books to re-read this summer.
Me too!
RE: Extra Credit Questions - Linda Anderson - 03-11-2013 06:05 PM
(03-10-2013 06:54 PM)L Verge Wrote: Stanton left college after two years and returned to his job at the book store. In the summer of 1833, cholera swept eastern Ohio. Edwin had developed a close relationship with the daughter of the owner of the boardinghouse where he was living. Her name was Ann Howard. One day, Edwin came home at the dinner hour (what we call lunch), and Ann served him his meal. He returned to his job, and one hour later, Ann collapsed. She was dead within four hours.
Fearing the contagion, she was buried immediately. Edwin had a premonition that she was still alive, and by lamplight, he and a young medical student dug up her body to make sure that she was really dead -- this while exposing themselves to the dreaded disease.
I was thinking of Poe's "The Premature Burial" after reading Laurie's post. Maybe Stanton's behavior wasn't so odd after all.
"Fear of burial alive was deeply rooted in Western culture in the nineteenth century,[1] and Poe was taking advantage of the public's fascination with it.[2] Hundreds of cases were reported in which doctors mistakenly pronounced people dead.[3] In this period, coffins occasionally were equipped with emergency devices to allow the "corpse" to call for help, should he or she turn out to be still living.[4] It was such a strong concern, Victorians even organized a Society for the Prevention of People Being Buried Alive.[5]"
1. Meyers, Jeffrey: Edgar Allan Poe: His Life and Legacy. Cooper Square Press, 1992. p. 156.
2. Kennedy, J. Gerald. Poe, Death, and the Life of Writing. Yale University Press, 1987. p. 58-9
3. Premature burial in the 19th century
4. Meyers, Jeffrey: Edgar Allan Poe: His Life and Legacy. Cooper Square Press, 1992. p. 156.
5. Premature burial in the 19th century
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Premature_Burial
RE: Extra Credit Questions - L Verge - 03-11-2013 06:43 PM
I have never been able to prove this story, and the folks at Stratford Hall (Lee's birthplace in Virginia) deny it. However, my grandmother visited Stratford Hall around the turn of the 20th century. She swore that she was told by staff there that Lee's mother suffered from epilepsy and that severe attacks would leave her in a catatonic state. After one such seizure, she was declared dead and buried in the family cemetery near the mansion.
A slave passing by late at night heard sounds in the cemetery and ran to get the family. Mrs. Lee was dug up and rescued from her coffin. She continued to live and produce children, one of whom was Robert E. Lee.
I can see where staff at the museum would deny such a thing, but I have often wondered if the episode didn't make it into someone's journal, diary, or letters. My grandmother had only a sixth grade education, but she adored history and I don't think she would have made this story up on her own -- not to say that the guide she heard it from didn't make it up!
I have also read of corpses being buried with loud bells that they could ring if they would awake from the dead. This makes embalming even more important. Speaking of which, I have also heard that George Washington was preserved in alcohol and in a coffin with a glass lid. Throughout most of the 19th century, the wooden top of the casket would be removed on his birthday so that the public could view the father of their country. Supposedly the glass cracked one year as the wood lid was sealed down, and air seeped in enough to evaporate some of the alcohol. When the coffin was opened the next year, a portion of Washington's nose was exposed to the air and disintegrated.
Now, your assignment, should you choose to accept it is to prove or disprove these two stories.
RE: Extra Credit Questions - Gene C - 03-11-2013 07:11 PM
(03-11-2013 06:43 PM)L Verge Wrote: Speaking of which, I have also heard that George Washington was preserved in alcohol and in a coffin with a glass lid. Throughout most of the 19th century, the wooden top of the casket would be removed on his birthday so that the public could view the father of their country. Supposedly the glass cracked one year as the wood lid was sealed down, and air seeped in enough to evaporate some of the alcohol. When the coffin was opened the next year, a portion of Washington's nose was exposed to the air and disintegrated.
I understand the same thing happened to Michael Jackson
(no relation to Stonewall Jackson)
RE: Extra Credit Questions - RJNorton - 03-12-2013 04:48 AM
George Washington feared premature burial. As he lay dying, he requested of the attending physician: "have me decently buried; and do not let my body be put into the Vault in less than three days after I am dead. Do you understand me?"
RE: Extra Credit Questions - BettyO - 03-12-2013 10:48 AM
Quote:I have never been able to prove this story, and the folks at Stratford Hall (Lee's birthplace in Virginia) deny it. However, my grandmother visited Stratford Hall around the turn of the 20th century. She swore that she was told by staff there that Lee's mother suffered from epilepsy and that severe attacks would leave her in a catatonic state. After one such seizure, she was declared dead and buried in the family cemetery near the mansion.
A slave passing by late at night heard sounds in the cemetery and ran to get the family. Mrs. Lee was dug up and rescued from her coffin. She continued to live and produce children, one of whom was Robert E. Lee.
I can see where staff at the museum would deny such a thing, but I have often wondered if the episode didn't make it into someone's journal, diary, or letters. My grandmother had only a sixth grade education, but she adored history and I don't think she would have made this story up on her own -- not to say that the guide she heard it from didn't make it up!
I was on the staff at Shirley Plantation in James City County for years. The late Mr. Hill Carter - descendant of the original owners (Robert "King Carter - wealthiest man in the Colonies during the 1700s) and patriarch of the Carter family who still own Shirley to this very day, told me this same story - and stated that it occurred at Shirley Plantation, after she left husband Light Horse Harry Lee. It was claimed to be true. Mrs. Lee was a Carter before her marriage to Lee -
RE: Extra Credit Questions - Joe Di Cola - 03-12-2013 11:20 AM
None of this is reported in biographies of either Light Horse Harry Lee or of Robert E Lee.
(03-11-2013 07:11 PM)Gene C Wrote:Michael Jackson's nose disintegrated before he died.(03-11-2013 06:43 PM)L Verge Wrote: Speaking of which, I have also heard that George Washington was preserved in alcohol and in a coffin with a glass lid. Throughout most of the 19th century, the wooden top of the casket would be removed on his birthday so that the public could view the father of their country. Supposedly the glass cracked one year as the wood lid was sealed down, and air seeped in enough to evaporate some of the alcohol. When the coffin was opened the next year, a portion of Washington's nose was exposed to the air and disintegrated.
I understand the same thing happened to Michael Jackson
(no relation to Stonewall Jackson)
RE: Extra Credit Questions - Gene C - 03-12-2013 11:24 AM
Thanks Betty & Laurie, that's a great story, I've got to remember that this halloween, or the next time I need a good camp fire story.
Do we know why she left Harry?
RE: Extra Credit Questions - Laurie Verge - 03-12-2013 11:29 AM
Thank you, Betty. At least Grandma got most of the story correct! BTW: Shirley Plantation is magnificent. Anyone who comes close to the D.C. area should really visit the great plantation houses along the James River as well as Stratford Hall - which is very close to Washington's birthplace at Pope's Creek Plantation.
RE: Extra Credit Questions - BettyO - 03-12-2013 01:08 PM
Thanks, Laurie! Shirley is magnificent and features a "flying staircase" - no visible means of support. It also had one of the first hot air conductible furnaces ever- which was put into the house in the early 19th Century. The original vents are still used to this day - and the Carter family still own the plantation. The James River Plantations, Shirley, Westover, Berkley, Sherwood Forest and Edgewood are all beautiful - and you can actually stay at Edgewood - it's a bed and breakfast (and haunted to boot! You may even meet the resident Civil War era ghost, Lizzie!)
Gene - the reason Mrs Lee left her husband was because he was a spend-thrift who, through his gambling habits, lost their home, Stafford Hall Plantation and died deeply in debt. Even though he was a signer of the Declaration of Independence, Lee attempted to escape his creditors by fleeing to "The Continent" i.e. Europe. Mrs.Lee returned to her childhood home, Shirley, and it was there that she had the spell which resulted in her "premature burial."
RE: Extra Credit Questions - Gene C - 03-12-2013 02:23 PM
That's terrible. A spend thrift gambler who lost their plantation home, who leaves the country to avoid his debts, abondoning his wife and children. And that's the only reason she left him? There must be more, your just trying not to depress us and ruin our day. He was also probably one of those insensitive guys who wouldn't put the seat back down in the outhouse. Amazing, she puts up with (for a time) all his bad behaviour, but she gets the stigma of "leaving him"
That must have been quite a scandal back then.
(did you know if you type ***** instead of "bad behaviour", you get these little stars)
RE: Extra Credit Questions - GARY POPOLO - 03-12-2013 02:35 PM
Laurie, I was reading your post on Stanton's tragic life. Indeed it was tragic! I could not imagine losing a girlfriend,child,wife and brother to suicide all in an eight year period. That is a tough act to follow. They say god does not give you more than you can handle. I think that is pushing the limit! Kidding aside what a loss to over come and then run the war and then run the counrty at the time of Lincoln's assassination. On top of that loss your position in goverment and then die broke. So sad.
RE: Extra Credit Questions - Jim Page - 03-12-2013 05:26 PM
One of the nicest weekends I ever spent was at Stratford Hall. I belong to a group of acoustic guitar nuts who met online, and we rent out the Westmoreland State Park in the Northern Neck of Virginia every spring to have a gathering. Folks come from all over; we usually have about 120 or so show up. We play music and eat chili and drink mass quantities.
The last time I attended, about four years ago, I rented a room in the guest quarters at Stratford Hall instead of renting a WPA-era cabin in the park as I usually do. I had the whole darn thing to myself, eating homemade potato chips on a huge deck and enjoyed a wonderful tour of the Hall, to boot. The folks there are just outstanding. What a weekend!!!
One of the pro players made a comment during his evening set, on the banks of the Potomac, that the Northern Neck was amazing because one could see six different varieties of road-killed mammals on the road to the park while still having good mobile-phone coverage.
I need to go back this spring.
--Jim
RE: Extra Credit Questions - L Verge - 03-12-2013 06:39 PM
Jim, you fooled me - I thought the musician was going to comment on how many homes of Presidents you can find in the Northern Neck. I think I can count Washington's birthplace, Madison, Monroe, Tyler, and probably some others. Speaking of Madison, we are all familiar with the village of Port Conway, where Booth and Herold hopped on the ferry to cross the Rappahannock into Port Royal. There is nothing left there now except a later home and charming Episcopal chapel on what was the Conway plantation. James Madison was born there - his mother being a Conway. A bit down the road, just past Cleydael, is Mason property. Thomas Jefferson's granddaughter married into the Masons and lived on that property, which was known as Mt. Alta.
Now back to Light-Horse Harry Lee so that I can confuse you with how the first families of Virginia and Maryland intertwined. Lee was a cavalry officer during the Revolution, and many historians claim that Washington's men could not have survived Valley Forge without his raiders' help in bringing food, medicine, and clothing to the forces there. He went on to serve his country in Congress and is the one who eulogized Washington in Congress in 1799 with the famous "first in war, first in peace, and first in the hearts of his countrymen" speech.
Betty filled you in on Harry's bad luck with money (brought on by too much land speculation in the new U.S.). He had to move his family closer to Washington to participate in the government. He bought land in Alexandria, Virginia, and the family moved there in 1811 when Robert was four years old. The family continued to live in the house after Lee fled bankruptcy charges, leaving his brother with a sizeable bond to forfeit. He fled to the West Indies in 1813, with the help of President Monroe. Five years later, he decided to come home, but died in 1818 en route from Georgia. His wife then left what is now known as the Lee-Fendall Home in Alexandria and moved across the street.
Now comes the inter-marriage. Most of us know that George Washington married the widow Martha Dandridge Custis and inherited two stepchildren. The stepson, John (Jacky) Parke Custis married into the Lords Baltimore of Maryland when he married Eleanor Calvert at Mount Airy Plantation (about three miles from Surratt House). One of their sons, George Washington Parke Custis married Mary Lee Fitzhugh. Only one child of that marriage survived - Mary Anna Randolph Custis, who became Mrs. Robert E. Lee.
Going back to the Calvert side of the family, one of the descending girls was Julia Calvert, who married into one of the richest families in Virginia at the time of the Civil War. Her husband was Dr. Richard Stuart of Cedar Grove Plantation with a summer home named Cleydael. He was descended from both the House of Hanover and the House of Stuart in England.
Julia Calvert Stuart attended Mary Custis at her wedding to Robert E. Lee. Her portrait and that of her husband used to be/may still be in the nursery at the Lee home of Stratford Hall. Ironically, the Calvert plantation at Mount Airy, near Surrattsville, was being probated at the time of the Lincoln assassination, and it was Julia's brother who was writing to Mary Surratt to get her to pay off the land that her husband had purchased from the Calverts in 1852. Ever heard of the Six Degrees of Separation?
There is also a story in Southern Maryland that Gen. Lee crossed the Potomac into Maryland to visit his Calvert relatives during the war.
The boyhood home of Lee in Alexandria is now a historic house museum. Old Town Alexandria is just about fifteen minutes from Mount Vernon, and is filled with old homes, nice restaurants, and pricey boutiques. It's worth a visit.
RE: Extra Credit Questions - RJNorton - 03-13-2013 03:38 PM
I think this one will be a challenge. This gentleman worked for President Lincoln, and the picture usually seen in Lincoln books was when he was much younger. Who is he?
![[Image: gentlemanwithcane.jpg]](http://rogerjnorton.com/gentlemanwithcane.jpg)