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+--- Forum: Books - over 15,000 to discuss (/forum-6.html)
+--- Thread: "Alias Paine" (/thread-613.html)
RE: "Alias Paine" - BettyO - 01-25-2013 09:38 AM
Thanks so very much for your kind words, Maddie -
Yes, studying, researching those past lives are vastly important to history - and I think broadens the human experience inasmuch as these were living, breathing, feeling people - not just sepia toned images -
Bringing history to life is what it is all about!
Thanks again !
RE: "Alias Paine" - Laurie Verge - 01-25-2013 09:38 AM
A very good post, Maddie -- and good teachers bring in the human side of history in the classroom whenever they can find the opportunity to do so. Unfortunately, our nation is trending more and more to the "teach to the test" rule where students only learn enough to get them through standardized tests to make the school district look good.
We've been reaping the benefits of that strategy for the past thirty years or so, and look where it has gotten us. In my area, heavy emphasis is put on science, math, and reading when teaching to the test. I have spent years at Surratt House trying to convince teachers that HISTORY and the social sciences have their base in READING, so why not incorporate it into the reading program.
When I was teaching, the textbooks were chosen by a representative committee within our county system. There were usually 3-4 recommended books that individual schools could then choose from. In those days, most of the publishers of said textbooks were based in New England, so the emphasis on certain subjects (especially regarding the Revolution and the Civil War) was slightly skewed.
There's big money to be made in the field of textbook publishing. Several years ago, there was a story done on the committee that selects books for Texas schools and the pressures that are put upon them by publishers. Texas has turned it around and puts pressure on the publishers to come up with better products.
RE: "Alias Paine" - HerbS - 01-25-2013 10:05 AM
MaddieM,Fantastic post! History is a key to the past,and a door to the future!
RE: "Alias Paine" - BettyO - 01-25-2013 10:27 AM
Agreed!
RE: "Alias Paine" - My Name Is Kate - 01-25-2013 12:28 PM
Thank you Roger and Laurie, for responding to my questions. Maybe I should have started a new thread, but I was following up on something that had been said in the post before mine. Anyway, back on topic...
RE: "Alias Paine" - Dawn E Foster - 01-25-2013 11:38 PM
(01-25-2013 09:17 AM)MaddieM Wrote: Anyway... back on topic....
I think books such as Alias Paine...are invaluable in that they bring back into the light, that which was in danger of being forgotten, the human side of history, digging beneath to expose what could have been buried forever, caring and sharing with people like me, who would have forever remained ignorant of a whole wealth of knowledge and history personally unheard of.
These people lived and breathed, laughed and cried, loved and lost, and reading about what made them tick, or behave the way they did, for good or bad, is what history is all about...at least for me.
Oh, me too!!!
RE: "Alias Paine" - My Name Is Kate - 01-26-2013 05:16 PM
I would love to hear more about what went on in Lewis's cell on July 6, 1865, between him and Dr. Gillette. I recall reading somewhere (probably a link to it on this forum) the sermon that Gillette gave right after the assassination and the attempted assassination, and how outraged he was about it and how he called the attempted assassination on Seward "fiendish" (which of course it was), but then to meet the "fiend" and find out that he was actually a remorseful, frightened kid, and not the nearly-subhuman monster that the press had made him out to be...that must have been quite a shock and memorable experience, not to mention what followed the next day. It would be most interesting to read more about Gillette's reaction to all that, if it exists anywhere. And I wonder what effect that experience might have had on any of Gillette's subsequent sermons.
RE: "Alias Paine" - MaddieM - 01-26-2013 06:12 PM
(01-26-2013 05:16 PM)My Name Is Kate Wrote: I would love to hear more about what went on in Lewis's cell on July 6, 1865, between him and Dr. Gillette. I recall reading somewhere (probably a link to it on this forum) the sermon that Gillette gave right after the assassination and the attempted assassination, and how outraged he was about it and how he called the attempted assassination on Seward "fiendish" (which of course it was), but then to meet the "fiend" and find out that he was actually a remorseful, frightened kid, and not the nearly-subhuman monster that the press had made him out to be...that must have been quite a shock and memorable experience, not to mention what followed the next day. It would be most interesting to read more about Gillette's reaction to all that, if it exists anywhere. And I wonder what effect that experience might have had on any of Gillette's subsequent sermons.
Most likely made him realise that all is not what it may seem.
RE: "Alias Paine" - My Name Is Kate - 01-26-2013 06:20 PM
Certainly that, but I'm wondering more how/if it affected his faith and religious beliefs.
RE: "Alias Paine" - BettyO - 01-27-2013 07:42 AM
Quote:I would love to hear more about what went on in Lewis's cell on July 6, 1865, between him and Dr. Gillette. I recall reading somewhere (probably a link to it on this forum) the sermon that Gillette gave right after the assassination and the attempted assassination, and how outraged he was about it and how he called the attempted assassination on Seward "fiendish" (which of course it was), but then to meet the "fiend" and find out that he was actually a remorseful, frightened kid, and not the nearly-subhuman monster that the press had made him out to be...that must have been quite a shock and memorable experience, not to mention what followed the next day. It would be most interesting to read more about Gillette's reaction to all that, if it exists anywhere. And I wonder what effect that experience might have had on any of Gillette's subsequent sermons.
Dr Gillette wrote a nice article entitled "Sixteen Hours in the Cells" (quoted in Alias), in which he described in detail just what Lew Powell told him. He stated that Lew was extremely "cultured and intelligent" and spoke to him regarding his upbringing in the Baptist Church and his childhood. He stated that Powell was totally remorseful and cried bitterly when talking about his mother whom he loved immensely. Gillette also said that the boy alternately wept and prayed the entire time - praying and talking into the night. Lew instructed Gillette to give his Bible and some other personal affects to his parents (they never got them for unknown reasons) and told Gillette to preach a sermon about him to warn other young men to watch the company they keep. Gillette did that.
It was said that the hanging upset Gillette enormously and that he had a great deal of trouble sleeping and was ill for a while after watching the young man whom he helped die so horribly.
I think that Gillette, who had a son the very same age as Lew, acted more or less in the same capacity as Lew's dad during this ordeal; somewhat like a stand in since the poor boy didn't have any family near. I don't know how else it affected him other than it made him sick....
RE: "Alias Paine" - My Name Is Kate - 01-27-2013 01:47 PM
I had read everything in "Alias Paine" with great interest, especially the final days and last hours in the cell. It must have been horrific...
I don't recall who Gilmor was...a fellow soldier that Powell met? Why did Lewis want so badly to join the rebellion, even though his parents were opposed to it?
I didn't know that Dr. Gillette also visited the other prisoners in their cells. It's interesting that the first thing Atzerodt did was blame Mrs. Surratt for the predicament he was in.
I'm looking forward to reading your next book!
RE: "Alias Paine" - BettyO - 01-27-2013 02:01 PM
Gilmor was Harry S. Gilmor, commander of a Maryland regiment of cavalry, comprised of the 1st and 2nd Maryland Cavalry. When Powell escaped from captivity after the battle of Gettysburg, he went South hoping to rejoin his 2nd Florida Infantry unit, but fell in with Gilmor's Raiders. Powell declared that they were a "rough class of men" whose antics did not please him and after the unit attacked, beat up and stole goods from a group of innocent Jewish peddlers, Powell deserted. He continued on his way to rejoin the 2nd Florida, somehow connected with Colonel John S. Mosby and joined his unit. Powell was proud of his affiliation with Mosby.
I don't know why Powell wanted to enlist at 17. I would assume that it was just the thing for young boys to do at that time. Probably he also felt that it would be a good, worldly experience for him.
RE: "Alias Paine" - Bill Richter - 01-27-2013 03:43 PM
I have a problem with Gilmor being described as CO of the First and Second Md Cav. He was a company commander in the First but raised the Second Md as Gilmor's Partisan Raiders, a separate unit. These men were distinct from the First Md, a more regular volunteer cavalry unit that served the war, at first as part of the First Va Cav. Late in the war, about the time of Gettysburg, Gilmor received permission to leave the First Md and raise his own independent btn of partisan raiders, which eventually became the Second Md Cav Btn. Gilmor's men were very informal in their command and discipline and this is how Powell found them, disorderly and, well, raiders.
Powell was a regular army man and used to the discipline of an infantry unit of the line, the 2 Fla Inf. Mosby suited Powell fine because he and his men of the 43 Va Btn were closer to the regular concept of discipline that Powell was used to in the Army of NVA. This had to be so or Gen RE Lee would not endorse their operations behind the US lines, and Lee told Mosby and CSA Sec'y of War Seddon this.
The point of all this is that Powell was no ordinary murderer but a soldier on detached duty during the attempt to kidnap Lincoln on Seventh Street and his attempt to assassinate USA Sec'y of State Seward during the night of April 14. He was picked because of his adhering to Mosby's discipline and his valuable service with him in 1864. He thus was a far cry from the dunce the Yankee prosecutors thought. He was a clever as a fox and played dumb to keep information from the enemy. He went to his death as a soldier, not a ruffian.
RE: "Alias Paine" - HerbS - 01-27-2013 04:01 PM
Tremendous Post Bill !!!!!!
RE: "Alias Paine" - BettyO - 01-27-2013 04:06 PM
Quote:I have a problem with Gilmor being described as CO of the First and Second Md Cav. He was a company commander in the First but raised the Second Md as Gilmor's Partisan Raiders, a separate unit. These men were distinct from the First Md, a more regular volunteer cavalry unit that served the war, at first as part of the First Va Cav. Late in the war, about the time of Gettysburg, Gilmor received permission to leave the First Md and raise his own independent btn of partisan raiders, which eventually became the Second Md Cav Btn. Gilmor's men were very informal in their command and discipline and this is how Powell found them, disorderly and, well, raiders.
Thanks, Bill! I can always count on you to know the military! These guys were quite unruly - not like Mosby's gentlemen!