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+--- Thread: President Lincoln and the Sioux Indian uprising in Minnesota in 1862 (/thread-1100.html)
RE: President Lincoln and the Sioux Indian uprising in Minnesota in 1862 - Gerald D. Swick - 07-16-2014 10:35 AM
The topic of Lincoln and the Sioux (Dakota) Uprising seems to attracting attention of late. The Winter 2014 issue of MHQ: The Quarterly Journal of Military History (published last November—by my employer, for the record) ran "Lincoln's Choice" by Scott W. Berg about the president's decisions on the trials. The current Civil War Quarterly has an article (sorry, I don't recall the title), and Harper One / HarperCollins just released Lincoln's Bishop, by religious historian Gustav Niebuhr. I received a review copy of the latter, and I thought Niebuhr did very good job of presenting the atmosphere, both nationally and in Minnesota, during which Lincoln had to make his decisions. It focuses on the life of Henry Benjamin Whipple and includes his meeting with Lincoln and his letters to the president before and after that meeting. It's a pity that at the time of the White House meeting the prolific letter-writer Whipple had a badly infected hand, due to stabbing himself while treating whites wounded in the uprising, and so he didn't write any notes immediately following. He gave information in an autobiography years later, but I wish he had been able to immediately record his thoughts on the meeting with Lincoln. If you want to see my full review, I'll leave a link below.
Scott Berg's article in MHQ makes a point I've not seen elsewhere, that the Acts of War required the chief executive to review any death sentences made in the field by military courts. That diminishes the notion that Lincoln personally reviewed all the cases based on a personal sense of justice, but the fact that he made the politically unpopular decision to commute the death sentences in well over 80% of the cases, when Minnesota was filled with a lynch-mob mentality, speaks to both his compassion and his concern for the law.
Here's the link to the book review, if you want to check out Niebuhr's book. The book is a quick read but has a lot of interesting details.
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/lincolns-bishop-book-review.htm
RE: President Lincoln and the Sioux Indian uprising in Minnesota in 1862 - STS Lincolnite - 07-27-2014 09:41 PM
Mr. Scott W. Berg, who Gerald mentions as the author of the MHQ article, penned his own book on subject in 2012. The book was entitled 38 Nooses: Lincoln, Little Crow and the beginning of the Frontier's End. My uncle recommended this book to me, it has received strong reviews online and is now available in paperback.
http://www.amazon.com/38-Nooses-Lincoln-Beginning-Frontiers/dp/0307389138/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1406514254&sr=1-1&keywords=38+nooses
I confess it is in my "to read" pile but I have not gotten to it yet. In paging through, there was a surname or two that were familiar to me and are likely tangential relations.
I grew up in the upper midwest/great plains and one branch of my family heralds directly from that part of Minnesota. Here is a quote from my great-great grandmother's obituary published in January 1913.
"She experienced and lived through the Indian uprising of 1862. In company with her mother and sisters and neighboring women she fled from the pursuing Indians to New Ulm, then to Mankato and from there to St. Peter, where they took refuge in an old church for fourteen days."
RE: President Lincoln and the Sioux Indian uprising in Minnesota in 1862 - LincolnToddFan - 07-28-2014 04:10 PM
I understand that there are people who disapprove of Lincoln's action as president regarding the Sioux. I suppose what confuses me is what they feel Lincoln could have/should have done in this case, vs. the action he actually took. I have asked this question for years, ever since I learned of the mass execution but I have never once received a reply.
Do they feel he should he have commuted the sentences of every one of them?
RE: President Lincoln and the Sioux Indian uprising in Minnesota in 1862 - STS Lincolnite - 07-28-2014 06:02 PM
(07-28-2014 04:10 PM)LincolnToddFan Wrote: I understand that there are people who disapprove of Lincoln's action as president regarding Sioux. I suppose what confuses me is what they feel Lincoln could have/should have done in this case, vs. the action he actually took. I have asked this question for years, ever since I learned of the mass execution but I have never once received a reply.
Do they feel he should he have commuted the sentences of every one of them?
Toia, I suppose at least a partial answer to this questions lies in another question: Who are "they"?
From what I understand, Lincoln (as it seems like he often did) angered people on both sides of the conflict with the decision he made. On one side, there were those people that thought that all of the Indians should have been executed, on the other side, there were those people who thought that none of the Indians should have been executed. Lincoln examined the situation, considered all the options and, I believe (while admittedly looking through the lens of history), made the only decision he could have made. The fact the he angered people on both sides seems to underline the idea that he made the best decision he possibly could have in a situation where there was no "good decision" or "right decision" to be made (this has been alluded to on this forum in the past related to other decisions).
Once I have read Mr. Berg's book, I will pass along his answer is to the question you pose (assuming of course he answers it!).
RE: President Lincoln and the Sioux Indian uprising in Minnesota in 1862 - LincolnToddFan - 07-28-2014 06:28 PM
I think by "they" I mean the people who criticize AL for carrying out any sentences at all. The ones who fall into that category seem to be mostly civil libertarians, neo-Confederates, and Native Americans. In the case of the neo-Confederates, there is no decision that he could have made that would have been satisfactory, and for the Native Americans the upholding of ANY of the sentences would be an outrage.
I agree with you. For me, the fact that he angered people on both sides of the issue means he made the best possible decision.
Thanks much for your reply...I look forward to reading your review of the book!
RE: President Lincoln and the Sioux Indian uprising in Minnesota in 1862 - My Name Is Kate - 09-23-2014 12:36 AM
I wonder if Lincoln ever questioned the decision he made. As a lawyer, he knew justice required that each of the accused be given access to impartial counsel and a fair trial (most could not even speak or understand English). He did order that two attorneys attempt to find out the facts about the charges against the 300+ defendants, but suppose he had ordered they all be assigned an attorney, as would (supposedly) have been done had they been deemed by popular opinion to be citizens of this country, and therefore entitled to those rights? Did he ever entertain that thought, or did he immediately dismiss it, and on what grounds? Was it a certainty that he would have been impeached, or worse, and did he berate himself for picking Andrew Johnson as his running mate, with the threat of war looming throughout his campaign for president (due mainly to his stance against the spread of slavery in the territories), or did he justify his choice as the politically expedient thing to do at the time? Did he believe that he, as President (with an incompetent second-in-command), was too indispensable to this country fighting a civil war for its continued existence (and the future of representative government), to risk ending his term prematurely over the possible wrongful deaths of a few starving Indians? Was he afraid of the lynching mob screaming for the deaths of all the accused, and does the fact that he allowed 38 of the accused be put to death without a fair trial, indicate that he "respected" their opinion to some degree, even if he knew it to be wrong, and how did he reconcile that apparent contradiction?
All this may sound judgmental or cynical to some, but I don't intend for it to be that way. These are some of the thoughts that would haunt me, had I been in Lincoln's shoes. I would like to know how he resolved them, or pushed them to the back of his mind so he could continue to function. I would especially like to know if he cursed the day he decided to become a politician, or did he not foresee until it was too late, situations such as this, that would drive the average conscientious person insane? Surely he did.
RE: President Lincoln and the Sioux Indian uprising in Minnesota in 1862 - Gene C - 09-23-2014 05:35 AM
The flip side to all this - how many would have died if he had done nothing? He was able to save over 200 lives.
Did he do the best he could, with the limited knowledge, resources and time he had available?
I think so. And under the circumstances, he probably did a pretty good job.
RE: President Lincoln and the Sioux Indian uprising in Minnesota in 1862 - Eva Elisabeth - 09-23-2014 09:22 AM
(09-23-2014 12:36 AM)My Name Is Kate Wrote: These are some of the thoughts that would haunt me, had I been in Lincoln's shoes. I would like to know how he resolved them, or pushed them to the back of his mind so he could continue to function. I would especially like to know if he cursed the day he decided to become a politician, or did he not foresee until it was too late, situations such as this, that would drive the average conscientious person insane? Surely he did.I second Gene.
Lincoln decided to become a politician long before he decided to become a lawyer. Sure it wasn't his objective to become president in wartime, but once (in 1862) stated that "perhaps he might be an instrument in God's hand of accomplishing a great work and he certainly was not unwilling to be". I think he did not regret his decision at all.
To deal with haunting thoughts I think is what drew him to God and the bible in later life (and you know what people and peoples can do and bear in the name of God, positive as well as negative, no judgement intended here).
RE: President Lincoln and the Sioux Indian uprising in Minnesota in 1862 - STS Lincolnite - 09-23-2014 10:08 AM
(09-23-2014 09:22 AM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:(09-23-2014 12:36 AM)My Name Is Kate Wrote: These are some of the thoughts that would haunt me, had I been in Lincoln's shoes. I would like to know how he resolved them, or pushed them to the back of his mind so he could continue to function. I would especially like to know if he cursed the day he decided to become a politician, or did he not foresee until it was too late, situations such as this, that would drive the average conscientious person insane? Surely he did.I second Gene.
Lincoln decided to become a politician long before he decided to become a lawyer. Sure it wasn't his objective to become president in wartime, but once (in 1862) stated that "perhaps he might be an instrument in God's hand of accomplishing a great work and he certainly was not unwilling to be". I think he did not regret his decision at all.
To deal with haunting thoughts I think is what drew him to God and the bible in later life (and you know what people and peoples can do and bear in the name of God, positive as well as negative, no judgement intended here).
I concur with both Gene and Eva. I always think of a principle that Stepen Covey articulated: "Begin with the end in mind." I have always thought Lincoln exemplified this. He understood that sacrifices (personal and otherwise - no matter how revolting or terrible they might be) would have to be made to acheive, in the end, what he believed would be a greater good. This has been true throughout history. I would suppose that the way that he was able to cope with all the death and carnage of those times (especially that which he was force to order and support) was to keep reminding himself that there was a greater good that he was working toward as "an instrument in God's hand" (as Eva quoted) and that it would in fact eventually be acheived.
RE: President Lincoln and the Sioux Indian uprising in Minnesota in 1862 - L Verge - 09-23-2014 11:38 AM
I know that some of you will say that my next comments are just me continuing the Southern tradition of bad-mouthing Lincoln, but I do not intend it to be such. I feel that Mr. Lincoln had no qualms about executing at least some of the "rebelling" Sioux - just as he knew that the "rebelling" Southerners had to be defeated - no matter the cost. Scott's summary above says it better (and more kindly)than I, but I think that Mr. Lincoln's mindset on both the Indian situation and the Confederacy was perfectly normal for a man in his position of power and leadership.
RE: President Lincoln and the Sioux Indian uprising in Minnesota in 1862 - My Name Is Kate - 09-23-2014 01:10 PM
I absolutely agree that Lincoln did the best he could, and that he did a pretty good job. What baffles me is how he could aspire to be a politician, and especially President, who he very likely knew would have to make decisions in terrible situations, yet he apparently was not a religious person, and some question whether he believed in God at all. So from where did he derive his inner strength?
RE: President Lincoln and the Sioux Indian uprising in Minnesota in 1862 - Gene C - 09-23-2014 01:55 PM
Below is a copy of Lincoln's second inaugural speech of March 4, 1865. It's relatively short.
If you believe he is honest in what he said, I think you will have your answer.
He wrote his own speeches.
http://www.bartleby.com/124/pres32.html
RE: President Lincoln and the Sioux Indian uprising in Minnesota in 1862 - My Name Is Kate - 09-23-2014 02:03 PM
Yes, but that is after the Civil War ended. What got him through all that hell? How could anyone face the prospect of being president in wartime without a strong faith?
RE: President Lincoln and the Sioux Indian uprising in Minnesota in 1862 - Gene C - 09-23-2014 02:27 PM
That's a good question that deserves a good answer.
I'm at work right now, and have an appointment this evening, so I can't give it the attention and thought it deserves.
Hopefully someone wiser and more knowledgeable will answer, if not I'll try later tonight.
RE: President Lincoln and the Sioux Indian uprising in Minnesota in 1862 - L Verge - 09-23-2014 03:20 PM
I don't have an answer, but I'm going to pose another question: I am not a Presidential scholar, but how did Grant feel about what he had to do? Or FDR and Truman, who had to approve one of the most horrible war weapons known to man? Or Eisenhower? Has anyone written on how deep their faith was? Did they (and Lincoln) place their faith in an almighty God who would sanction their actions - or did they hold themselves solely responsible for the actions taken?