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+--- Forum: Books - over 15,000 to discuss (/forum-6.html)
+--- Thread: "Alias Paine" (/thread-613.html)
RE: "Alias Paine" - L Verge - 01-22-2013 06:34 PM
I need Bill to help me out here. When was the Battle of Palmetto Ranch, and were there any battle casualties? I have to assume there were or it wouldn't qualify as a battle...
RE: "Alias Paine" - Bill Richter - 01-22-2013 07:13 PM
May 13, 1865, there were casualties on both sides, I do not have the numbers, but is on the internet. John Surratt, Jr., was in it in Co'y A, 33d Texas Cavalry. I wrote an article for the courier on that a few years back, and the battle is spoken of (there were at least two in the same spot during the war) in that big book I gave you last year at he annual meeting, Hist Dict of the CW and Recon. For shame, Laurie. . . .
Oh, oh! Now I have to hang my head in shame--I meant Isaac Surratt was at Palmito (or Palmetto in English)
RE: "Alias Paine" - My Name Is Kate - 01-22-2013 08:56 PM
Henry Wirz was hung Nov. 10, 1865, so Lewis was not the last Civil War soldier to "die in action".
RE: "Alias Paine" - LincolnMan - 01-22-2013 09:27 PM
And casualties continue... http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,353998,00.html
RE: "Alias Paine" - MaddieM - 01-23-2013 08:13 AM
(01-22-2013 09:27 PM)LincolnMan Wrote: And casualties continue... http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,353998,00.html
Oh, my Giddy Aunt! Imagine that! Talk about when your time's up, it's up. You know, I always thought cannon balls were solid.
RE: "Alias Paine" - BettyO - 01-23-2013 08:40 AM
Oh no -
Civil War cannon balls were made of iron but filled inside with shrapnel - bits of sharp edged steel ; sometimes nails I also think, (please someone correct me if I'm wrong!) which exploded on impact and tore anything within range to shreds!
Grape shot was one of the worse. It was a steel cannon ball filled with small rounds of black powder which when it struck and exploded, exploded again with all the little "grape shot" or black powder filled balls inside -
RE: "Alias Paine" - BettyO - 01-23-2013 09:04 AM
I don't know the full particulars on this, Herb -- All I know is that it was an explosion within an explosion....maybe Wes Harris would like to chime in? He's our weapons expert -
RE: "Alias Paine" - Gene C - 01-23-2013 10:04 AM
They did had something called grape and canister. Basically a tin can filled with small bits of metal. When the cannon fired it blew the can apart and shot out all the metal. It was desinged for short range attacks and was pretty devastating if you were in the way. (I think the grape is for the size and if they put small round items - metal or rock) The purpose was to kill attacking soldiers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canister_shot
RE: "Alias Paine" - Wesley Harris - 01-23-2013 11:21 AM
(01-23-2013 10:04 AM)Gene C Wrote: They did had something called grape and canister. Basically a tin can filled with small bits of metal. When the cannon fired it blew the can apart and shot out all the metal. It was desinged for short range attacks and was pretty devastating if you were in the way. (I think the grape is for the size and if they put small round items - metal or rock) The purpose was to kill attacking soldiers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canister_shot
Grape shot and canister shot are similar. Think oversized shotgun shell. Canister shot used smaller iron balls with insufficient force to puncture a ship or destroy a structure--no explosive material in them. At Gettysburg, Union artillery fired canister at the ground in front of approaching Confederates. As the tin canister came apart, numerous iron balls ricocheted off the ground into the enemy troops.
RE: "Alias Paine" - BettyO - 01-23-2013 11:24 AM
Thanks, Wes! I knew you'd know!!
RE: "Alias Paine" - Houmes - 01-23-2013 10:23 PM
(01-22-2013 06:34 PM)L Verge Wrote: I need Bill to help me out here. When was the Battle of Palmetto Ranch, and were there any battle casualties? I have to assume there were or it wouldn't qualify as a battle...
Palmito Ranch, Cameron County, Texas, May 12-13, 1865
Estimated Casualties: 30 US, 118 CS
RE: "Alias Paine" - Bill Richter - 01-24-2013 07:33 AM
There is a push to make Columbus the last battle of the CW because the Confederacy went defunct on May 5, 1865. Columbus was about 10 times bigger in terms of casualties, but I think a lot has to do with the Yanks winning at Columbus and the Rebs winning at Palmito, the irony of the loser winning the last battle being too much nowadays. It's all semantics?
From Wikipedia:
The Battle of Palmito Ranch in Texas occurred after the Battle of Columbus, but the engagement at Palmito Ranch occurred after Johnston's surrender to Sherman (April 26, 1865) and after the Confederacy dissolved on May 5. In the Official Records of the Civil War, the Battle of Columbus is referred to as the "closing conflict of the war."
RE: "Alias Paine" - My Name Is Kate - 01-24-2013 09:22 PM
"There is a push..." by who? Who decides what gets taught in school and what is put into textbooks? Who decides which textbooks get used in schools? How is it that things that are not true, get taught in schools as though they were true? Where are the checks and balances when it comes to education?
RE: "Alias Paine" - RJNorton - 01-25-2013 05:17 AM
I retired 18 years ago, so just the fact that I was once a classroom teacher is a rather vague memory. When I began teaching I simply inherited the classroom and textbook which the departing teacher had used. But when it came time to pick a new one, the teachers themselves (at least in the district where I taught) had a good deal of input. We met with salesmen from several textbook companies, and we selected the book which best met the curriculum and teaching methods we used. Textbooks come with an array of supplementary material (worksheets, tests, activities, teaching suggestions, etc.), and these were also examined carefully for usefulness in the classroom. When I say "we" I mean two people - the other fellow who taught Anerican history and me. I know the principal gave us some sort of checklist when it came to textbook selection, but it was so long ago I do not recall its details. I am sure we had a budget that we had to stay within, but I do not recall those details either. Additionally, I don't recall what the "higher ups" did with our textbook selection; did they look into it(?)...I do not know. All I remember is we got the book we picked. Wish I could recall the whole textbook selection process in greater detail, but this is all I remember now.
RE: "Alias Paine" - MaddieM - 01-25-2013 09:17 AM
Anyway... back on topic....
I think books such as Alias Paine...are invaluable in that they bring back into the light, that which was in danger of being forgotten, the human side of history, digging beneath to expose what could have been buried forever, caring and sharing with people like me, who would have forever remained ignorant of a whole wealth of knowledge and history personally unheard of.
These people lived and breathed, laughed and cried, loved and lost, and reading about what made them tick, or behave the way they did, for good or bad, is what history is all about...at least for me.