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+--- Thread: Awww...Peanuts (/thread-1802.html)
RE: Awww...Peanuts - RJNorton - 07-10-2014 01:42 PM
(07-10-2014 01:04 PM)STS Lincolnite Wrote: I did not look to see if he was called at Andrew Johnson impeachment proceedings (but I will when I get a chance) like many others were.
Scott, I don't think so. I think he essentially "disappears" after the conspiracy trial.
RE: Awww...Peanuts - STS Lincolnite - 07-10-2014 02:51 PM
Thanks Roger. My suspician was that he did not.
Cliff posited in a previous post that Peanuts may have relocated to Baltimore. It makes me curious as to the possiblity that he worked at John Ford's Baltimore Theatre after the assasination. I wonder if a search of records regarding that theatre might turn him up? Maybe he disappeard from the Washington DC area but not from Ford's circle of cast/crew. I am not sure where or if any records from that theatre might still exist.
RE: Awww...Peanuts - L Verge - 07-10-2014 02:54 PM
(07-10-2014 01:25 PM)Cliff Roberts Wrote:(07-10-2014 09:44 AM)L Verge Wrote:(07-09-2014 04:24 PM)Rsmyth Wrote: In Steers "The Evidence" pg. 140, there is a statement by John Bohran and in parenthesis Joseph Burroughs. The statement lists John C. Bohran "Peanut John."
This is a very interesting development, Rich, and worth looking into. I seems to me that Steers and Edwards added the bracketed information [Joseph Burroughs] under the Bohran name to indicate that Burroughs was his real name, and in their footnote, they give the possibility of "Borrows" and "Bohran."
In the trial records, the name is given as Joseph Burroughs - so who in the heck is Bohran. Betty and Susan, city directories please; Cliff, what's your take on the "Bohran?"
This guy has plagued historians for 150 years. It's time that we clearly identify him.
Hi Lori. I've found many legitimate variations of the Burroughs surname over the years, some traditional and some merely to differentiate one family from another with the same name in the same town. But in the case of Peanut's statement, I think it's simply a matter of mistaken phonetics. Whoever recorded his name simply wrote what he heard, "Bohran," rather than what the boy actually said. At the time, what was really important is what the witness saw and heard, not precise spelling of names. If you say "Burroughs" quickly with a slight Southern drawl (something like "baurra") it's easy to see how the transcriber could make that error. I'm fairly confident the correct spelling of his surname is Burroughs.
I agree, Cliff. I think we have run into yet another example of phonetics, accents, dialects, etc. tending to confuse the issue. My family from Southern Maryland slurs it so that it sometimes sounds like "burrs."
I'm beginning to suspicion that Peanuts may have been homeless and attached to the Ford family as needed??
RE: Awww...Peanuts - Rsmyth - 07-10-2014 06:32 PM
Nicknames are worse than maiden names when tracking people. "Peanut" may not have been fond of the name associates had bestowed on him and when (if) he moved discarded the tag.
RE: Awww...Peanuts - RJNorton - 07-11-2014 04:11 AM
(07-10-2014 09:44 AM)L Verge Wrote: This guy has plagued historians for 150 years. It's time that we clearly identify him.
(07-10-2014 02:51 PM)STS Lincolnite Wrote: Cliff posited in a previous post that Peanuts may have relocated to Baltimore. It makes me curious as to the possiblity that he worked at John Ford's Baltimore Theatre after the assassination.
From what I can tell here are the possibilities:
(1) Cliff posited in a previous post that Peanuts may have relocated to Baltimore
(2) the son of Dr. Joseph Borrows eliminated by Susan's research
(3) an unnamed fellow who told fireman Elmer Stein he was Peanut John (around May 1930)
(4) Nathan Simms
(5) "Coughdrop Joey" Ratto
I believe Ed Steers and others have eliminated numbers 3, 4, and 5. Cliff, I think you are the best hope for finding this boy!
RE: Awww...Peanuts - STS Lincolnite - 07-11-2014 05:57 AM
(07-10-2014 06:32 PM)Rsmyth Wrote: Nicknames are worse than maiden names when tracking people. "Peanut" may not have been fond of the name associates had bestowed on him and when (if) he moved discarded the tag.
I agree completely. Especially if he was one of the people that wanted to escape his involvement in the events of that dark day there is no way he would want to continue to go by Peanut John or John Peanuts or a similar nickname. Definitely makes him more difficult to track.
(07-11-2014 04:11 AM)RJNorton Wrote:(07-10-2014 09:44 AM)L Verge Wrote: This guy has plagued historians for 150 years. It's time that we clearly identify him.
(07-10-2014 02:51 PM)STS Lincolnite Wrote: Cliff posited in a previous post that Peanuts may have relocated to Baltimore. It makes me curious as to the possiblity that he worked at John Ford's Baltimore Theatre after the assassination.
From what I can tell here are the possibilities:
(1) Cliff posited in a previous post that Peanuts may have relocated to Baltimore
(2) the son of Dr. Joseph Borrows eliminated by Susan's research
(3) an unnamed fellow who told fireman Elmer Stein he was Peanut John (around May 1930)
(4) Nathan Simms
(5) "Coughdrop Joey" Ratto
I believe Ed Steers and others have eliminated numbers 3, 4, and 5. Cliff, I think you are the best hope for finding this boy!
Very well summarized Roger! I agree with Laurie, it is long past time this young man was found so we can learn the rest of his life story. Hope Cliff is able to continue along his line of research with success.
RE: Awww...Peanuts - Tom Bogar - 07-11-2014 01:22 PM
Ah, Peanut, Peanut, Peanut--the eternal mystery figure. Sorry I haven't addressed this thread earlier, but I've been out of the country (in Montreal, actually, where the folks at the Montreal Historical Society said "John Wilkes who? never heard of him." Just kidding) In researching Backstage, I came across two potential old-age Peanuts: the New York Herald 8/24/1888 talks about “Peanut John” Oprandy of Mount Vernon, NY, who runs fruit stand and “has amassed quite a fortune from the business.” Also four different items in the Springfield (MA) Republican from 1889 to 1904 mention “Peanut John” Musante. But neither panned out (and believe me, I tried). My secret theory is, since Annie Wright, the wife of stage manager John Burroughs Wright, called him "a simple minded but good natured street waif who worked all day and half the night about the stage," that he was actually kind of homeless and had been semi-adopted by Wright, who gave the boy his own middle name as a surname. But who knows? I took the age from several sources, most credibly from Will T. Kent, who said in the St. Louis Globe Democrat (12/3/1891) that Peanut was “a young fellow about 17 years old.”) Talk about the Holy Grail of Lincoln Assassination information......
RE: Awww...Peanuts - Cliff Roberts - 07-11-2014 02:03 PM
(07-11-2014 01:22 PM)Tom Bogar Wrote: . . . . My secret theory is, since Annie Wright, the wife of stage manager John Burroughs Wright, called him "a simple minded but good natured street waif who worked all day and half the night about the stage," that he was actually kind of homeless and had been semi-adopted by Wright, who gave the boy his own middle name as a surname. But who knows? I took the age from several sources, most credibly from Will T. Kent, who said in the St. Louis Globe Democrat (12/3/1891) that Peanut was “a young fellow about 17 years old.”) Talk about the Holy Grail of Lincoln Assassination information......
Hi Tom. I recall coming across news clippings on several guys known in their local areas as "Peanut John" but in those cases, the fellow's first name was really John! Your theory about the Wright connection is interesting, but the description of the "simple minded but good natured street waif," doesn't fit our Peanuts. I think Joseph Burroughs was good natured but definitely not simple minded, as a reading of his recorded statements after the assassination will attest. He may have been unable to sign his name, but his responses, under what must have been grueling interrogation, show a young man with a surprising ability to stand up to his questioners and deliver his answers forthrightly, with clarity, exactness and credibility. This carried over to his testimony at trial. My impression is that of a young man, not easily intimidated, with limited education, but possessing an intelligent mind and an ability to handle himself well among adults.
RE: Awww...Peanuts - Tom Bogar - 07-11-2014 07:47 PM
I agree with you, Cliff, esp. in terms of his knowledge of, and testimony about, horses. I was concentrating more on the "street waif" part.
RE: Awww...Peanuts - RJNorton - 07-12-2014 04:40 AM
I agree that he was not, but my (extremely vague) memory seems to recall someone else describing Peanuts as dull-witted. Perhaps it was William J. Ferguson (actor) in one of his statements? I have forgotten, though, but I am pretty sure I read it (said by a Ford's Theatre employee/actor) somewhere.
RE: Awww...Peanuts - Cliff Roberts - 07-12-2014 12:46 PM
(07-12-2014 04:40 AM)RJNorton Wrote: I agree that he was not, but my (extremely vague) memory seems to recall someone else describing Peanuts as dull-witted. Perhaps it was William J. Ferguson (actor) in one of his statements? I have forgotten, though, but I am pretty sure I read it (said by a Ford's Theatre employee/actor) somewhere.
I think you're right about it being Ferguson - I do recall him making a statement like that, and/or possibly it was in his own book. He was young, not much older than Peanuts, and I had the impression he was trying to belittle the lad to increase his own stature. I think Ferguson started out doing odd jobs around the theater until he was pressed into service as an actor in bit roles, such as the small part he was playing in Our American Cousin.
RE: Awww...Peanuts - RJNorton - 07-12-2014 03:01 PM
Yep, it was Ferguson. At my age I sometimes don't know if I am imagining something or I really read it somewhere.
"The basket boy at Ford's Theatre was known as 'Peanut John.' (Basket boy being one who carried wardrobes back and forth between the homes of the actors and the theatre in champagne baskets) "He was a dull-witted boy and often mixed up the baskets." p. 12 I Saw Booth Shoot Lincoln by W. J. Ferguson, Pemberton Press, Jenkins Publishing Company, Austin and New York 1969.
I do agree with you and Tom. Peanuts' responses/testimony do not support Ferguson's contention.