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RE: Extra Credit Questions - Anita - 11-08-2023 08:56 PM
I second Roger. Proctor was new to me too. Thanks Michael.
RE: Extra Credit Questions - AussieMick - 11-15-2023 06:06 PM
What events caused these words from President Lincoln ... No Googling, please
" ... Accidents, however, incidental to all States, and passions, common to all nations, often tend to disturb the harmony"
RE: Extra Credit Questions - RJNorton - 11-15-2023 08:23 PM
Wild guess...
Mary Lincoln was thrown from her carriage, and she hit her head hard and was seriously injured in 1863.
RE: Extra Credit Questions - Gene C - 11-15-2023 09:40 PM
The Trent Affair ?
RE: Extra Credit Questions - AussieMick - 11-16-2023 03:25 AM
Sorry, Roger ... Mary wasnt involved this time.
Well done, Gene !!! Trent yes was one of the events involved ...
What was the other event which prompted the communication?
RE: Extra Credit Questions - AussieMick - 11-16-2023 05:49 AM
Googling is Ok ... except for using the words in the quote.
RE: Extra Credit Questions - AussieMick - 11-16-2023 02:17 PM
The communication did not actually mention the "Trent Affair" but it seems , considering the timing and the people involved, that the affair was being alluded to in those words quoted above.
Knowing to whom the communication was sent would help to know what the other event was.
RE: Extra Credit Questions - Rob Wick - 11-16-2023 07:41 PM
Given the time when the Trent Affair happened, I would say the death of Prince Albert, husband of Queen Victoria.
Best
Rob
RE: Extra Credit Questions - AussieMick - 11-17-2023 06:00 AM
Well done, Rob. You got it.
I'll try to find relevant links but basically Lord Russell was going to throw the US to the wolves over the Trent.
But Prince Albert was more conciliatory and re-wrote the UK response.
Short time later he died. Then Lincoln (or I suppose Seward's wording) letter was sent to Queen Victoria expressing condolences and including the above quote.
( I know meanings of words change over time but , I'm sorry, I find Seward's /Lincoln's words very convoluted and ... well, not quite right.)
"Meanwhile, on November 28 an outraged Prime Minister Lord Palmerston called his cabinet together with the stern “I don’t know whether you are going to stand this, but I’ll be damned if I do!” War Secretary George Cornwall Lewis felt war was inevitable. The Foreign Office sent word to Paris that the American insult was a clear provocation likely to cause war. On November 29 Palmerston outlined to Foreign Secretary Lord John Russell his requirements for a peaceful resolution—a formal apology and the release of the envoys. Failing to secure these requirements, the British minister in Washington, Lord Richard Lyons, would be directed to collect his papers and withdraw, thus breaking relations with Washington. This would be Palmerston’s ultimatum to Lincoln.
...
On November 30 two drafts of instructions to Lyons were reviewed by the cabinet and forwarded later that evening to the Queen, proposing that she “demand reparation and redress.” Prince Albert, from what would soon become his death bed, responded for the Queen. Albert feared that the language of the ultimatum would make it impossible for Lincoln to comply and so edited the missive to include the hope that Wilkes had acted on his own or that he had “misapprehended” his orders. And, while stressing that the Crown would not tolerate an insult to the flag or disruption of the mail, he remained confident that the matter could be settled peacefully with “the restoration of the unfortunate passengers and a suitable apology.” Prince Albert’s intervention would prove critical to providing the Lincoln administration a face-saving extrication from the crisis."
https://www.essentialcivilwarcurriculum.com/the-trent-affair.html
Lincoln Letter :-
To Queen Victoria
February 1, 1862
Abraham Lincoln,
President of the United States of America.
To Her Majesty Victoria,
Queen of the United Kingdom
of Great Britain and Ireland,
&c., &c., &c., Sendeth Greeting!
Great and Good Friend: By a letter from your son, His Royal Highness, the Prince of Wales, which has just been received, I am informed of the overwhelming affliction which has fallen upon Your Majesty, by the untimely death of His Royal Highness the late Prince Consort, Prince Albert, of Saxe Coburg.
The offer of condolence in such cases is a customary ceremony, which has its good uses, though it is conventional, and may sometimes be even insincere. But I would fain have Your Majesty apprehend, on this occasion, that real sympathy can exist, as real truthfulness can be practised, in the intercourse of Nations. The People of the United States are kindred of the People of Great Britain. With all our distinct national interests, objects, and aspirations, we are conscious that our moral strength is largely derived from that relationship, and we think we do not deceive ourselves when we suppose that, by constantly cherishing cordial friendship and sympathy with the other branches of the family to which we belong, we impart to them not less strength than we derive from the same connection. Accidents, however, incidental to all States, and passions, common to all nations, often tend to disturb the harmony so necessary and so proper between the two countries, and to convert them into enemies. It was reserved for Your Majesty in sending your son, the Heir Apparent of the British Throne, on a visit among us, to inaugurate a policy destined to counteract these injurious tendencies, as it has been Your Majesty's manifest endeavor, through a reign already of considerable length and of distinguished success, to cultivate the friendship on our part so earnestly desired. It is for this reason that you are honored on this side of the Atlantic as a friend of the American People. The late Prince Consort was with sufficient evidence regarded as your counsellor in the same friendly relation. The American People, therefore, deplore his death and sympathize in Your Majesty's irreparable bereavement with an unaffected sorrow. This condolence may not be altogether ineffectual, since we are sure it emanates from only virtuous motives and natural affection. I do not dwell upon it, however, because I know that the Divine hand that has wounded, is the only one that can heal: And so, commending Your Majesty and the Prince Royal, the Heir Apparent, and all your afflicted family to the tender mercies of God, I remain Your Good Friend, ABRAHAM LINCOLN.
Washington, 1st. Feby., 1862.
By the President:
WILLIAM H. SEWARD, Secretary of State.
(https://quod.lib.umich.edu/l/lincoln/lincoln5/1:265?rgn=div1;view=fulltext )
I've highlighted in bold the words which strike me as peculiar word usage.... but maybe its just that I've never worked in the diplomatic world.
RE: Extra Credit Questions - Gene C - 11-17-2023 10:02 AM
I agree with you, it doesn't seem like something Lincoln would write
RE: Extra Credit Questions - David Lockmiller - 11-17-2023 02:06 PM
I believe that President Lincoln composed and wrote the entire letter.
And, a key to this understanding is the use of the word "fain" in context. According to dictionary.com the adverb use of the word is "gladly; willingly" and with the sentence example: "He fain would accept."
Lincoln wrote: "The offer of condolence in such cases is a customary ceremony, which has its good uses, though it is conventional, and may sometimes be even insincere. But I would fain have Your Majesty apprehend, on this occasion, that real sympathy can exist, as real truthfulness can be practiced, in the intercourse of Nations."
This was at the time of the Trent affair, as I believe. Diplomatic relations of the two governments were adverse at the time.
Lincoln wrote: "Accidents, however, incidental to all States, and passions, common to all nations, often tend to disturb the harmony so necessary and so proper between the two countries, and to convert them into enemies. It was reserved for Your Majesty in sending your son, the Heir Apparent of the British Throne, on a visit among us, to inaugurate a policy destined to counteract these injurious tendencies, as it has been Your Majesty's manifest endeavor, through a reign already of considerable length and of distinguished success, to cultivate the friendship on our part so earnestly desired. It is for this reason that you are honored on this side of the Atlantic as a friend of the American People. The late Prince Consort was with sufficient evidence regarded as your counsellor in the same friendly relation."
Lincoln concluded the short missive accordingly: "The American People, therefore, deplore his death and sympathize in Your Majesty's irreparable bereavement with an unaffected sorrow."
And, Lincoln ended: "This condolence may not be altogether ineffectual, since we are sure it emanates from only virtuous motives and natural affection. I do not dwell upon it, however, because I know that the Divine hand that has wounded, is the only one that can heal: And so, commending Your Majesty and the Prince Royal, the Heir Apparent, and all your afflicted family to the tender mercies of God, I remain Your Good Friend, ABRAHAM LINCOLN."
RE: Extra Credit Questions - Rob Wick - 11-17-2023 10:00 PM
I have no idea whether or not Lincoln wrote this, but in searching the Collected Works online, only two instances exist where "fain" appears. The first was in the letter here and the second was by a couple of Chicago pastors who urged Lincoln in 1862 to bring about a national emancipation movement. The usage was from them and not Lincoln. It appears Lincoln never used it in any other public or private document, which would suggest to me that he didn't write it.
Best
Rob
RE: Extra Credit Questions - RJNorton - 11-18-2023 04:43 PM
I was curious about "fain" too. I did a search of Seward's autobiography, and I found he used it one time. I lean toward Seward as the author, but it's not a full lean.
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=nyp.33433082389473&seq=236&q1=fain
RE: Extra Credit Questions - David Lockmiller - 11-18-2023 07:18 PM
April 29, 1865 - Queen Victoria to Mary Todd Lincoln (Condolences)
Dear Madam,
Though a stranger to you I cannot remain silent when so terrible a calamnity has fallen upon you & your country, & most personally express my deep & heartfelt sympathy with you under the shocking circumstances of your present dreadful misfortunes.
No one can better appreciate than I can, who am myself utterly broken-hearted by the loss of my own beloved Husband, who was the Light of my Life, -- my Stay -- my All,-- What your sufferings must be; and I earnestly pray that you may be supported by Him to whom alone the sorely stricken can look for comfort, in this hour of heavy affliction.
With the renewed expression of true sympathy,
I remain,
dear Madam,
Your Sincere
friend
Victorially
It almost seems that Queen Victoria may have reread President Lincoln's letter to her following the death of her own husband. I quote therefrom and please note the similarity in phrasing:
"I know that the Divine hand that has wounded, is the only one that can heal: And so, commending Your Majesty and the Prince Royal, the Heir Apparent, and all your afflicted family to the tender mercies of God, I remain Your Good Friend, ABRAHAM LINCOLN."
RE: Extra Credit Questions - David Lockmiller - 11-19-2023 12:46 PM
President Lincoln on the question of whether or not England would declare war upon the United States as a result of the Trent affair:
Agitated by the vituperative attacks by the British press, Seward burst into Lincoln's office on Sunday afternoon, December 15, [1861]. Orville Browning, who was taking tea with the president at the time, dismissed Seward's worries, insisting that England would not do "so foolish a thing" as to declare war. Lincoln was not so sure. He recalled a ferocious bulldog in his hometown. While neighbors convinced themselves that they had noting to fear, one wise man observed: "I know the bulldog will not bite. You know he will not bite, but does the bulldog know he will not bite?"
Team of Rivals, page 398.