Lincoln Discussion Symposium
Is this Abraham Lincoln? - Printable Version

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RE: Is this Abraham Lincoln? - Xristobal - 06-25-2022 01:22 PM

(06-25-2022 07:13 AM)Gene C Wrote:  In this second image of the photo's in question, and the close up images of his right hand, the subject is wearing a ring.

Any photographs of Lincoln wearing a ring, or record of Lincoln wearing a ring?
According to this in the Historical Marker Data Base https://www.hmdb.org/m.asp?m=48874 Mary had an engraved wedding ring, but Lincoln did not.

Hi Gene,
This ring is on his right hand as this image is a copy of a daguerreotype that was redaguereeotyped. Thus, he appears correct to where his right is his right. I have not found any record of a wedding ring, nor him adorning himself with rings. But, if you look closely at the 1847 Shepherd Dag of Lincoln, you can observe the presence of an impression upon his right ring finger showing he must have worn a ring at times. If you look closely you can see this impression in the same exact position as his right ring finger within this new dag.
Even though Mary had a wedding ring, I believe the cultural tradition of wearing wedding rings came decades after the Lincoln’s wedding. As most historic record of Lincoln is from the era in and around his presidency, it could be surmised that a candidate or elected president may choose not to wear gold for obvious tactical reasons within those tumultuous times.
Thanks,
Chris

RE: Is this Abraham Lincoln? - Steve - 06-25-2022 02:09 PM

The tie pin of the man in the photo identifies him as a member of the Odd Fellows, a fraternal order. I do not believe Lincoln was a member of the Odd Fellows. Other 19th-century Presidents - Grant, Hayes, and McKinley were members.

Odd Fellows Wikipedia page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odd_Fellows

RE: Is this Abraham Lincoln? - Xristobal - 06-25-2022 04:42 PM

(06-25-2022 02:09 PM)Steve Wrote:  The tie pin of the man in the photo identifies him as a member of the Odd Fellows, a fraternal order. I do not believe Lincoln was a member of the Odd Fellows. Other 19th-century Presidents - Grant, Hayes, and McKinley were members.

Odd Fellows Wikipedia page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odd_Fellows

Hi Grant,
It seems there is some oral history of Lincoln being a member of the Odd Fellow’s. The order came to the Springfield area just after 1840 and most of the men on aristocrat row became members.
Chris
https://www.southwedge.com/posts/tour-the-odd-fellows-lodge/ https://m.facebook.com/iooffraternitas11/posts/2497788590486077?locale2=zh_CN
https://www.newsbug.info/rensselaer_republican/news/odd-fellows---a-road-less-traveled/article_ed449f40-43b5-58bb-abee-c52b4eeab93c.html

RE: Is this Abraham Lincoln? - RJNorton - 06-26-2022 04:02 AM

I checked several sources that I thought might have information on this: The Abraham Lincoln Encyclopedia, The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln, Herndon's Informants: Letters, Interviews, and Statements about Abraham Lincoln, and Herndon's Life of Lincoln. I could not find any mention of Abraham Lincoln ever joining the Odd Fellows. I realize oral history can often be a valuable tool, but I really thought one of these sources would have mentioned it if it were true.

RE: Is this Abraham Lincoln? - RJNorton - 06-27-2022 03:39 PM

I checked The Lincoln Log to see if the Odd Fellows were mentioned, and I found the following:

Friday, August 29, 1862: Mrs. Lincoln visits soldiers in Odd Fellows' Hall Hospital. Evening Star (Washington, DC), 29 August 1862, 2d ed., 3:1.

Friday, October 9, 1863: At 1:30 P.M. President receives invitation to attend celebration of Grand United Order of Odd Fellows in America at Israel Church on Capitol Hill. Committee to Lincoln, 8 October 1863, Abraham Lincoln Papers, Library of Congress, Washington, DC.

Friday, February 19, 1864: In the afternoon, President Lincoln and his family host a "private reception" in the White House for some "celebrated little people." Lincoln's guests include Charles Nestel and his sister Eliza Nestel, of Ft. Wayne, Indiana. The siblings are members of an entertainment troupe that is performing at Washington, D. C.'s Odd Fellows' Hall. The Nestels are better known, respectively, by the stage names Commodore Foote and the Fairy Queen. A newspaper reports that a large number of the "elite...of the city" have been attending the "wonderful performances." Evening Star (Washington, D.C.), 20 February 1864, 2:5, 3:1; Daily National Republican (Washington, DC), 20 February 1864, 2d ed., 2:6.

I did not see any references to Lincoln's Illinois' years.

RE: Is this Abraham Lincoln? - Eva Elisabeth - 06-28-2022 06:35 PM

(06-25-2022 02:09 PM)Steve Wrote:  The tie pin of the man in the photo identifies him as a member of the Odd Fellows, a fraternal order. I do not believe Lincoln was a member of the Odd Fellows. Other 19th-century Presidents - Grant, Hayes, and McKinley were members.

Odd Fellows Wikipedia page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odd_Fellows
Great input, Steve!

RE: Is this Abraham Lincoln? - RJNorton - 07-22-2022 04:36 AM

Chris sent another image which he feels is Abraham Lincoln. Is it?

[Image: Picture7.jpg]

RE: Is this Abraham Lincoln? - Gene C - 07-22-2022 05:51 AM

I don't see Lincoln in that image.

RE: Is this Abraham Lincoln? - Susan Higginbotham - 07-22-2022 12:37 PM

He looks nothing like Lincoln (and nothing like the previous "Lincoln" either).

I suspect that everyone on this forum would be delighted to see a hitherto unknown Lincoln image, and to refer the possessor of such an image to a reputable source to authenticate and appraise it.

RE: Is this Abraham Lincoln? - Dave B - 07-22-2022 06:53 PM

I agree that these images, far from being close approximations, seem to be completely different than Abraham Lincoln. They probably wouldn't make it as impersonators or reenactors.

RE: Is this Abraham Lincoln? - RJNorton - 07-22-2022 07:01 PM

I agree with Gene, Susan, and Dave. I have written Chris and asked that he post his reasoning on this particular image.

RE: Is this Abraham Lincoln? - Dave B - 07-23-2022 12:57 AM

Here's the irony, for me at least. In many cases technology confirms what we already suspected.
But here, even though technology supposedly informs us that some of these photographs are of Abraham Lincoln, our senses are at tremendous odds with that technological conclusion.
The photos don't even resemble Lincoln, and yet the technological analysis says that they ARE photos of Lincoln.

RE: Is this Abraham Lincoln? - Gene C - 07-23-2022 06:43 AM

Sometimes the technology isn't as good as we think (or are told) it is.
And in the analysis, sometimes we see what we want to see, and/or what we want others to see.

RE: Is this Abraham Lincoln? - Dave B - 07-23-2022 08:56 AM

Excellent points.

RE: Is this Abraham Lincoln? - Rob Wick - 07-23-2022 10:54 AM

If the first picture that Roger posted was of Lincoln (which it isn't. If it looks like anyone it looks more like Henry Clay to me), then it would have been of a younger Lincoln. Robert Todd Lincoln told Ida Tarbell that this was the earliest known photograph of Lincoln, which appeared in McClure's Magazine in the first part of Tarbell's series on Lincoln.

[Image: eLK4UM2l_t.jpg]

Of course it is quite possible someday to find a photo of Lincoln that isn't known, but the one Roger was asked to post isn't even close.

Best
Rob