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+--- Thread: Mary Todd Lincoln by Jean Baker (/thread-4183.html)
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RE: Mary Todd Lincoln by Jean Baker - LincolnMan - 11-27-2019 06:19 PM
Great review Gene.
RE: Mary Todd Lincoln by Jean Baker - Donna McCreary - 01-27-2020 07:24 PM
(09-26-2019 07:12 PM)Gene C Wrote:(09-26-2019 09:36 AM)L Verge Wrote: Until Gene pointed it out, I had forgotten about the reference to Mary Harlan Lincoln having a drinking problem. I don't ever remember reading that anywhere else; did I miss it in Giant in the Shadows? I've always wanted to see something in depth about Mary Harlan, mainly because I suspect she was one of the problems that contributed to how Robert handled his mother's situation.
I looked through Jason Emerson's Giant In the Shadows and was unable to find any reference to Mary Harlan and a drinking problem.
There is a footnote in Baker's book about Mary
"The evidence for Mary Harlan Lincoln's alcoholism is circumstantial, although strong. Her husband never specifically names it, although he does refer obliquely to it in a number of ways. The stories about Mary Lincoln's wanting to kidnap her granddaughter, Mamie, were partly the result of the grandmother's desire to get her away from a drunken mother."
(page 405, note 88)
I disagree with Baker's assumption that Mary Harlan Lincoln was an alcoholic. As a devote member of the Christian Science faith, she most likely followed the rules of her faith - which included non-use of alcohol. We do not know how closely MHL followed the teachings of her church, but she was devote enough to bequeath a large portion of the Lincoln estate to the church.
Several years ago, I spoke with one of the curators at Hildene who assured me the accounting books are intact. No where could he find a receipt for alcohol other than a special beer that one of their guests enjoyed. It was only purchased when that particular guest came to visit. (My memory may not be accurate on this, but I think the guest was Howard Taft.)
There is one reference to MHL serving pink champagne at a party in Mount Pleasant, Iowa. A newspaper article referenced that they drank too much pink champagne at a soiree. However, that does not mean that MHL drank it, only that it was served. There is also no indication that the newspaper reporter was correct in his comment.
The comment about "grandma's whiskey bottles in the attic" came years after MHL had passed away. Even this comment, given in haste, has to be carefully evaluated, for a disgruntled grandchild who was basically cut from the will may be inclined to say anything disrespectful about the one who did the cutting.
RE: Mary Todd Lincoln by Jean Baker - Mylye2222 - 02-03-2020 04:44 PM
"" "" "" Regarding Mary managing Lincoln's salary, "In contrast, the Lincolns lived on $6,600 a year, not much more than they had spent during there last years in Springfield. Under Mary's direction, (for her husband was negligent about money matters) they saved $70,000 of his $100,000 salary, less $3,600 for taxes." (page 192)" "" ""
Is this mentioning their family spendings while in the White House?
If so, the general admittance that AL was a frugal man is no legend then.
RE: Mary Todd Lincoln by Jean Baker - RJNorton - 02-03-2020 06:56 PM
In The Abraham Lincoln Encyclopedia Mark E. Neely, Jr. writes:
"When Lincoln left for Washington, his estate was about $15,000; when he died a little over 4 years later, it amounted to over $85,000. The difference was for the most part the money he saved from his $25,000 annual salary as President."
RE: Mary Todd Lincoln by Jean Baker - Mylye2222 - 02-03-2020 07:05 PM
(02-03-2020 06:56 PM)RJNorton Wrote: In The Abraham Lincoln Encyclopedia Mark E. Neely, Jr. writes:
"When Lincoln left for Washington, his estate was about $15,000; when he died a little over 4 years later, it amounted to over $85,000. The difference was for the most part the money he saved from his $25,000 annual salary as President."
He saved a lot of money for the future after his terms, but wasn't a spender.
RE: Mary Todd Lincoln by Jean Baker - Amy L. - 02-05-2020 07:16 AM
Was that money used to pay back the debt that Mary Lincoln racked up? Or was Mrs. Lincoln exonerated after her husband's death from the outrageous expenses spent on the White House?
Whatever the case, the money wasn't enough to keep Mrs. Lincoln comfortable through her life, as she haggled with the Federal Gov't over money given to widowed spouses. (Which for sure she was right to do, and a good effort on behalf of future First Ladies. (We gonna have a First Man in 2021?? I'm kinda excited.))
RE: Mary Todd Lincoln by Jean Baker - Gene C - 02-05-2020 07:44 AM
I can't give you page numbers but some merchants cancelled the debt, in other cases prominent people came forward and paid many of them off.
RE: Mary Todd Lincoln by Jean Baker - ReignetteC - 02-05-2020 11:01 PM
(09-27-2019 03:17 PM)L Verge Wrote: In case you married men haven't figured this out, women don't need medical excuses for going on shopping sprees... Much like some of us (male and female) can't contain ourselves when we get in a book store! And, there are times when husbands and children grate on nerves. Few male authors take into consideration that Lincoln's bouts with depression, his frequent absences in the early years, and his obsession with politics likely got on Mary's nerves as well. (and yes, she was quite interested in politics at the beginning -- until it started controlling her life, and the political bigwigs in D.C. didn't appreciate her.)
This does not excuse some of the public displays and tantrums that are attributed to Mary Lincoln, and I do believe that some of the speculation about medical issues might be accurate; but we will never know unless we exhume the body for DNA testing, and that is highly unlikely to happen.
In the past, I have recommended the book Crowns of Thorns and Glory. I continue to do so because it compares the Union First Lady with the Confederate First Lady, and a special point is made about merchants practically forcing things on Mary and also not telling her that an invoice would follow. Sort of like the car salesman today who tells you the base price and forgets to mention those never-ending add-ons.
Crowns of Thorns and Glory is a must for your Lincoln library. Laurie recommended it to me a few years ago at the Surratt Conference. (I found a copy on eBay.)
"With her husband's reelection [1864], Mary was no longer worried about her overdue bills, and neither, apparently, were her creditors. One merchant presented her a gift of an imported silk and point lace gown valued at $3500 to wear to the inaugural ball."
RE: Mary Todd Lincoln by Jean Baker - Donna McCreary - 02-15-2020 10:17 PM
One must also take into consideration that Mary did not receive all of Lincoln's estate. He died without a will, and the money was divided between Mary, Robert, and Tad. The money was tied up for over a year before the estate was settled. Upon leaving the White House, Mary had no income and little money. Merchants who had presented Mary with gifts prior to the assassination, suddenly wanted payment in full.
RE: Mary Todd Lincoln by Jean Baker - LincolnMan - 02-16-2020 08:36 AM
(02-15-2020 10:17 PM)Donna McCreary Wrote: One must also take into consideration that Mary did not receive all of Lincoln's estate. He died without a will, and the money was divided between Mary, Robert, and Tad. The money was tied up for over a year before the estate was settled. Upon leaving the White House, Mary had no income and little money. Merchants who had presented Mary with gifts prior to the assassination, suddenly wanted payment in full.
Wonder why Mary didn’t get all of the money-being Lincoln’s spouse.
RE: Mary Todd Lincoln by Jean Baker - RJNorton - 02-16-2020 09:13 AM
(02-16-2020 08:36 AM)LincolnMan Wrote: Wonder why Mary didn’t get all of the money-being Lincoln’s spouse.
Abraham Lincoln died intestate. I would think Mary would have received 1/2 of the estate with each boy (Robert and Tad) receiving 1/4. But the shares were divided equally between all three people. I do not know why it was done that way.