+- Lincoln Discussion Symposium (https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium)
+-- Forum: Lincoln Discussion Symposium (/forum-1.html)
+--- Forum: Abraham Lincoln before his Presidency (/forum-2.html)
+--- Thread: 1860 Census and Phillip Dinkell (/thread-2518.html)
RE: 1860 Census and Phillip Dinkell - RJNorton - 12-14-2015 01:28 PM
There were some folks who got it wrong in 1860:
RE: 1860 Census and Phillip Dinkell - Gene C - 12-14-2015 01:50 PM
Maybe that was his real name?
Not that I'm trying to prove or disprove anything, but as I recall there was a man in the Bible who had his named changed from Abram to Abraham. Perhaps someone is trying to make a correlation here?
For details see Genesis chapter 17
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%2017&version=NIV
RE: 1860 Census and Phillip Dinkell - L Verge - 12-14-2015 02:39 PM
(12-14-2015 01:28 PM)RJNorton Wrote: There were some folks who got it wrong in 1860:
Or had to abbreviate because they ran out of material...
RE: 1860 Census and Phillip Dinkell - maharba - 12-17-2015 05:23 AM
Doing a bit more looking. I see one site has Mary Lincoln with an outburst throwing the youth Phillip Dinkel out. Then it has a 'Lincoln expert' who explains that just could not be. Another website has an interesting listing of Blacks in Springfield contemporary with Lincoln there --often working as 'bonded servants' which the site explains essentially means Slaves under Illinois law. And it lists several of the Lincoln servants, says that many were Irish, some Black. And I find a 'rediscovered 1840 Illinois state census of Menard county (which had been cut away from Sangamon county). But, by 1840 Lincoln was living, or SHOULD have been found living in Springfield, Sangamon county, Illinois. At this time and year, the whig Lincoln was working for the president election of William Harrison, and so moving about in Illinois. Hard to believe Abraham Lincoln 'has been lost in the 1840 Federal census' for 175, or eight score and fifteen, years.
RE: 1860 Census and Phillip Dinkell - Gene C - 12-17-2015 07:29 AM
I read the following on a web site of famous quotes
"Don't believe everything you read on the internet"
- Abraham Lincoln -
http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/7011403-don-t-believe-everything-you-read-on-the-internet
Abraham backwards, which sites are you referring to?
RE: 1860 Census and Phillip Dinkell - maharba - 12-19-2015 08:37 PM
I'm still sifting to find Mr. Lincoln in the 1840 Census. Does anyone know a list of his street address and neighbors then
in Springfield?
RE: 1860 Census and Phillip Dinkell - Susan Higginbotham - 12-19-2015 10:38 PM
(12-19-2015 08:37 PM)maharba Wrote: I'm still sifting to find Mr. Lincoln in the 1840 Census. Does anyone know a list of his street address and neighbors then
in Springfield?
Wasn't he still living with Joshua Speed during part of 1840?
RE: 1860 Census and Phillip Dinkell - RJNorton - 12-20-2015 05:38 AM
Susan is correct. Lincoln was living there. Speed's store was located at the corner of Fifth and Washington Streets, but I do not have the address. Lincoln and Herndon moved the location of their law office several times, and their last office (beginning in 1856) was in this same building.
If you crossed Washington after walking by Speed's store you would come to the Melvin Drug Store (northwest corner of Fifth and Washington). Lincoln became a friend of Melvin's.
RE: 1860 Census and Phillip Dinkell - maharba - 12-20-2015 06:51 PM
Wasn't he still living with Joshua Speed during part of 1840? >
Susan is correct. Lincoln was living there. Speed's store was located at the corner of Fifth and Washington Streets, but I do not have the address.>
Thanks both for the suggestions. Yes, from what I see that should be Abraham Lincoln's official address in the 1840 census. In a 'census sense', I look at that as 'boarding' at that address. In 1850 and later censuses, I know that in such situations, a multi-occupied dwelling would list the owner and then the various 'boarders'. But, I'm not sure if in the early censuses such as 1840 would not also list a boarder by name.
As I said, several genealogies mistakenly claim he was the Abram Lincoln listed 1840 in Hancock county, Illinois. But that was his 1st cousin Abraham son of Mordecai Lincoln. The biographies say that Joshua Speed left Springfield soon, January 1841. And Abraham Lincoln was traveling as an elector for William Harrison, and might not have been in Springfield on that census day...if that would make a difference to the census taker? I'm looking at an odd listing which could possibly be Mr Lincoln in the 1840, and want to do some more checking before I cite it here, for others to
view and assess.
RE: 1860 Census and Phillip Dinkell - RJNorton - 12-20-2015 06:56 PM
I do not know if this will help, but Speed had a partner in the store - his name was Abner Y. Ellis.
RE: 1860 Census and Phillip Dinkell - Susan Higginbotham - 12-20-2015 07:54 PM
J. F. Speed is listed here. Not much help, however.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XHBJ-NPJ
RE: 1860 Census and Phillip Dinkell - maharba - 12-21-2015 08:58 PM
Joshua Fry Speed 1814-1882 is listed in 1840 Springfield Sangamon IL as J.F. Speed. Within a few months by Jan 1841, I suppose, he left Springfield and went back to Kentucky. He was born and died in Louisville, Kentucky. I think his father had died about 1840 and that is one reason he returned there. Joshua Speed married in 1842 to Frances Henning. They had no children. What is interesting is that in 1840 Census of Springfield ILL, it lists J.F.Speed as being the sole person in the household. Just him. Much or little could be made out of that enumeration. Did that mean Abraham Lincoln was no longer boarding there? Did the census taker make it out himself and not ask about boarders? Or Lincoln traveling (campaigning for Pres Harrison) and on, etc? I looked at the listing 1840 Springfield for Abner Yates Ellis, listed as A.Y. Ellis. The longer listing makes it clear that Abner was
married and it listed children (not by name in 1840). It does not appear that Abraham Lincoln was boarding with Abner Ellis, either. Even the listing of page numbers, there was very sketchy. It appears that Joshua Speed did not live near Abner Ellis, which I suppose means, when each was at his house, and not a shared business address.
RE: 1860 Census and Phillip Dinkell - RJNorton - 12-22-2015 05:29 AM
As previously mentioned the newly discovered 1840 state census for Menard County (incorrectly) lists Abraham Lincoln as one of the 4,481 residents there. Offhand I do not see what the connection would be, but could that mistake somehow explain why he is missing from the 1840 federal census?
IMO your suggestion that Lincoln was traveling, and not in Springfield when the federal census taker made his/her rounds, seems a likely explanation.
RE: 1860 Census and Phillip Dinkell - maharba - 12-23-2015 07:05 PM
If Abraham Lincoln was somehow listed in the 1840 federal census of Springfield, Sangamon Illinois, could he be 'hiding in plain sight' for all these past 175 years? There were supposed to have been about 2,600 folks living in Springfield
in 1840. One problem is that even the numbering of pages in the census there is almost useless. But I wonder if I have not found Abraham Lincoln listed there, by name? The page with the first name listed (apparently?) Boles McShand. Then the 18th listing on that page appears to show,
Abraham Lewis or Lemon or Lincon?
He is listed between Odis Wellington and Joseph Williams. Some other names on that 1840 Sangamon census page are: William W. Wells, Dennis Snodgrass, Johnsen Whaley. It was a poor script hand when originally written, and has faded so that you have to use imagination to read most the names. I list some of those other names so that folks can search (from those, and not Abraham Lincoln) to find that census page. In other census and other places, I have seen other Lincoln spelled as Linkon, Lincen, Lencin, etc. I want other researchers to look at this listing and their opinions.
RE: 1860 Census and Phillip Dinkell - RJNorton - 12-24-2015 06:08 PM
Maharba, can you post the URL of the page you are looking at? Thanks.
Also, if Abraham Lincoln were not included in the 1840 federal census...is there importance to this? IMO it is not that unusual if the census misses some people.