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+--- Thread: Carl Sandburg and Lincoln (/thread-25.html)
RE: Carl Sandburg and Lincoln - LincolnMan - 07-25-2012 07:58 PM
Craig: How is Sandburg's Lincoln history to be categorized in our thinking? Is it a history set in poetical form? Is it straight history? Is it a poetical narrative? Why the "academic distain" (to use the phrase Thomas used)? Why has it fallen out of favor?
RE: Carl Sandburg and Lincoln - Rob Wick - 07-25-2012 08:57 PM
Bill,
I suppose you meant for me to answer. I think it depends on which Sandburg you want to see. The Sandburg who wrote The Prairie Years in 1926 was the poet seeking the folk hero that he had been introduced to as a young boy in Galesburg, Illinois. He once told James G. Randall that he had wanted to write a book that he would have wanted to read when he was delivering milk in Galesburg as a boy.
The Sandburg who wrote The War Years was a man chastened by his experiences with Wilma Minor and her spurious letters that the Atlantic Monthly printed, with his imprimatur. He also was influenced by such friends as Paul Angle and Oliver Barrett. He turned more to documentary evidence in these four volumes.
Finally, the Sandburg who combined the six-volume set was a man nearing 80 who had become a celebrity and was more amenable to the help of academic historians who remained in his corner throughout his life. One in particular, Harry E. Pratt, along with his wife Marion Dolores Pratt, received "top billing" in the dedication page of the single-volume distillation. Sandburg called them "a handsome team of Lincoln scholars, who gave time and care to the new manuscript of the Prairie Years, wherefore the author is responsible for possibile inaccuracies or errors." Harry Pratt, from 1926 up to his death in 1956, worked with Sandburg to correct the errors that so many people found offensive.
I argue, however, there are more Sandburgs which one must contend with. There is Sandburg the poet, who used his lyric language to paint word pictures (both poetic and prose-laden) heavily influenced by a love for Walt Whitman. There is the celluloid Sandburg, asked by D.W Griffith to consult on his movie about Lincoln (which Sandburg declined to do). There is the Sandburg who also wrote about Mary Todd Lincoln and other Lincoln-related items and also influenced Ruth Painter Randall's biography of MTL when he told her to write it as a woman.
Finally, there is Sandburg the celebrity. Sandburg's celebrity probably brought a number of people to study Lincoln, especially when he appeared every February 12 telling American citizens and citizens of the world, why they should continue to revere the life of a man who died for the original sin of slavery. Sandburg's celebrity brought him calls to go around the country and talk of Lincoln and what he meant to America. I would argue that from 1939 (when The War Years came out) to his death in 1967, when people thought of Lincoln, they naturally thought of Sandburg. Both men were of the prairie, both were sensitive souls who loved poetry and both used words magically and with great effect.
Some academics disliked Sandburg for a myriad of reasons. One reason would be jealousy. Sandburg received the meed of popular approval and, as I said earlier, became to most people the authority on Lincoln. Much of what he wrote was wrong, although I argue that many of the mistakes he made were insignificant in type, although great in number. Some were questions of interpretation. One of the things I want to do in my book is to comb the six volumes and see just what type of mistakes were made. Sandburg never saw his book as straight-laced history. He was a poet using history as a tool, i.e., to bring alive a man he had wished he knew, and in many ways, did know, because of their ties to the regions where they lived.
I would say that it really hasn't fallen out of favor. I said at one point that many people view Sandburg as a relic and not a resource, but I still think if you mention Lincoln and Sandburg, you would get a knowing glance from the person you're speaking to. Many may not read Sandburg today, but many still know who he is. As to other reasons why it has fallen from grace, you'll have to read my book, once I get it written.
Best
Rob
RE: Carl Sandburg and Lincoln - LincolnMan - 07-25-2012 09:32 PM
Yes, Rob- sorry about that! Man your answer is outstanding. I read it over several times. I would love to read your book. Please know (and I know you do) that there are many of us, including myself, who treasure Sandburg and hold him in high esteem. Personally, he is the the one who led me to Lincoln-for better or for worse- and I have loved him and Lincoln ever since.
RE: Carl Sandburg and Lincoln - Rob Wick - 07-26-2012 09:27 AM
Bill,
Thanks for the kind words. I'm hoping to be able to get my book done in either late 2013 or early 2014. It will depend on how easy it is to find a publisher and how easy it is for me to complete the research necessary.
One thing I want to make clear is that my book does not seek to absolve Sandburg from his shortcomings, but rather to study them as well as his successes and the areas in which he influenced Lincoln studies. There can be no question that Sandburg was the best known and most successful of all Lincoln biographers, and all I hope to do with my work is to answer a simple question...why?
Best
Rob
RE: Carl Sandburg and Lincoln - LincolnMan - 07-26-2012 09:34 AM
Understood. The book sounds absolutely intriguing to me. Hope you don't mind more Sandburg posts/questions!
RE: Carl Sandburg and Lincoln - Rob Wick - 07-26-2012 09:45 AM
Not at all. Glad to find people who like to talk about him. My wife and other friends are tired of hearing about Sandburg, Tarbell, etc.
Best
Rob
RE: Carl Sandburg and Lincoln - LincolnMan - 07-29-2012 10:12 AM
Rob: I know Carl Sandburg has some Michigan connections. As I live here in Michigan, I was wondering if there is something here I can go visit regarding him. Is there a house or something else to see? Maybe just a historical marker?
RE: Carl Sandburg and Lincoln - Rob Wick - 07-29-2012 11:05 AM
Bill,
He built a house in Harbert in 1927 with the proceeds from The Prairie Years and lived there until 1945 when he moved to Connemara. The house in Michigan, however, is in private hands so I doubt that tourists are very welcome. I'm not sure what Harbert has in terms of Sandburgiana.
An interesting story about the move from Harbert. Sandburg's wife, Lillian (also known as Paula) packed all of Sandburg's belongings from his garret in two boxcars for the move to North Carolina. To keep the disruption for his writing to a minimum, she immediately set everything up in Connemara exactly as it was in Harbert down to the location of his desk and all his books.
Almost forgot another one. Sandburg used to take long walks on the beach in order to give his eyes a rest. He often walked with his head down, deep in thought. Two neighbor boys supposedly paid a tall man to dress like Lincoln down to the hat and walk past Sandburg. The faux-Lincoln supposedly said "Good Morning Mr. Sandburg" to which Sandburg was said to have looked up and replied "Good Morning, Mr. Lincoln" and continued on his walk. Not sure if it really happened, but a good story none-the-less.
Best
Rob
RE: Carl Sandburg and Lincoln - LincolnMan - 07-29-2012 02:20 PM
Oh Rob- I needed that laugh. I don't know if it's true but it fits my notions about Sandburg being lost in thought-perhaps as writers sometimes are. Maybe he was so connected to Lincoln on some level that it didn't seem unusual for him to pass him on the beach. He thought nothing of it!
I see on Amazon that Sandburg will be featured in the American Masters series. Something like: "The Day Carl Sandburg Died." Due out in September 2012.
RE: Carl Sandburg and Lincoln - Rob Wick - 07-29-2012 03:05 PM
Yes, Bill, Sandburg was a far more complex person than many give him credit for. I think much of the disdain for him came about in the 1960s during the rise of the "new history" and its disdain of nationalistic history, which Sandburg's certainly was. Of course, it's far more complicated then that, but my research had proven that out so far.
I am aware of the documentary, which was done by a fellow named Paul Bonesteel. I'm really looking forward to it.
Best
Rob
RE: Carl Sandburg and Lincoln - LincolnMan - 07-29-2012 04:39 PM
Carl Sandburg in those amazing photos with Marilyn Monroe. Wow! But I haven't read one mention of the fact that MM idolized Lincoln. They had to be discussing their mutual admiration for him. I believe the photos are from two separate meetings between the two?
RE: Carl Sandburg and Lincoln - Rob Wick - 07-29-2012 05:26 PM
Bill,
This is the newsletter of the Carl Sandburg Birthplace State Historic Site that has a small article on the photos. They put out the newsletter, I think, twice a year.
Best
Rob
RE: Carl Sandburg and Lincoln - LincolnMan - 07-29-2012 07:30 PM
Rob, what was Sandburg referring to in that quote to Mr. Randall. Was it in regards to his biography of Lincoln?
RE: Carl Sandburg and Lincoln - Rob Wick - 07-29-2012 08:20 PM
Bill,
The quote is what Sandburg inscribed in Randall's copy of the War Years in 1941 during a visit to Urbana. When I first read it, it seemed to me to encapsulate the friendship between Randall and Sandburg. Both knew what it was like to be on the receiving end of criticism and both knew how hard it could be to write history for a not-always friendly crowd. That they were very close and genuine friends surprised me.
Best
Rob
RE: Carl Sandburg and Lincoln - RJNorton - 07-30-2012 07:42 AM
Rob and Bill, I am sure what was said about Harbert is correct. Vicki and I inherited a very small cabin in St. Joe, Michigan, in 1979. For many years we drove there from Chicago on weekends. As we drove up Red Arrow Highyway along the Michigan shore, we drove through Harbert. There were never any signs...any indication at all on the main highway through town...that Sandburg had ever lived there. In fact the first I think I ever knew of it was when Rob once mentioned it in a post on the ALO Mailbag.