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+--- Thread: Mary's friends (/thread-2322.html)
RE: Mary's friends - LincolnToddFan - 03-31-2015 09:50 AM
(03-31-2015 02:45 AM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote: I am on the fence. I agree on both, Mary acknowledging E. K. was a rock to her during the W.H.years (and was quite disappointed she wasn't with her during the night of April 14/15), as well as that on the other hand her "instruction letters" regarding the clothes sale sound like to an employee rather than to a friend, but then again Mary wrote in that kind of demanding tone also to (other) closest friends (e.g. when she ordered them to visit her).
Re: "Keckly completely gave up her sewing business to care for Mary" - I'm afraid this doesn't tell anything about Mary's view on the friendship.
As for Clara Harris, I would think she, like Julia Taft, was rather a surrogate daughter to Mary.
Hi Eva,
Julia Taft was definitely a surrogate daughter-while it lasted. But even though Clara was a lot younger than MTL I've read nothing to indicate that she thought of her as anything other than a charming friend, someone she liked having around. Of course after the trauma of Ford's Theater there is no more mention of the lady or her fiance. Like everything else associated with that awful night she wanted no reminders.
Her relations with Keckly were complicated by and dictated by the social customs of the time. Keckly was not only a servant, she was a woman of color. No matter how MTL felt about her, there were limits to the way the relationship could be conducted publically and probably privately as well. But it's significant to me that other than her sons, Lizzie is the only one MTL repeatedly cried and pleaded for at the Peterson House on Apr14-15 1865. The fact that Lizzie was not there is because she was barred from entering the WH that night and not informed where Mary was. Keckly's unique status is also underscored by the fact that she was permitted to spend a few moments alone with AL's remains upstairs just before the autopsy began. And it was Keckly, along with Tad and Robert, who remained closeted with MTL in the little dark bedroom for the 40 traumatic days and nights after AL's murder. No one else except Dr. Anson Henry and occasionally Sec'y Stanton were permitted in that room. (MTL Letters, Levitt & Turner, pgs #221-241)
"....Aside from Mrs. Keckley, who was in a category all her own, her closest friends in Washington were the settled wives of Congressmen, generals and administration officials...." (Letters, Levitt & Turner, pg#136)
She also writes to AL that Lizzie has asked her for a loan during a trip to NYC, and that she (MTL) had a spell of illness and that "if it had not been for Lizzie Keckly I do not know what I should have done". (Letters pgs #139-140)
At the time of MTL's move to Chicago, Keckly had been retained to sew the bridal trousseau for a big society wedding in Washington. At Mary's insistence and pleading Keckly abandoned the commission to move to Chicago with her. This is something that costs her a lot of money.(Keckly "Behind The Scenes")
To me there is no way to refute that it was, for a long time, an extraordinarily intimate and mutually supportive relationship. It was as close a friendship as possible considering the barriers of race and class, which made the later publication of Keckly's book all the more painful to MTL.
On the other hand I am a little confused about the inclusion of Henry Clay as a true friend of MTL. He was the idol of her childhood and young womanhood, but he was mostly a much older friend of her father's. Other than the famous story about her riding her pony to his estate as a little girl and demanding to see him, I don't know of any interaction between them. And there are certainly no extant letters.
RE: Mary's friends - Susan Higginbotham - 03-31-2015 12:19 PM
(03-30-2015 07:36 PM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote: The Bradwells weren't really close friends, and AFAIK Mary didn't keep in touch with them later. Also they didn't attend her funeral.
Myra's granddaughter collected for publication letters that Mary had sent Myra after her release from the asylum, but was prevented from publishing them by the Lincoln family. Jason Emerson published the letters and the granddaughter's manuscript in 2011. Mary sent letters to Myra from Pau, and Myra visited her during a trip to Europe in 1878, which is also the date of the last letter in the granddaughter's manuscript.
According to the granddaughter, Mary continued to write to Myra after her return from Europe, but the granddaughter declined to publish the letters, which she described as sweet and chatty, and they apparently have not survived or have not been found.
My guess is that the Bradwells chose not to attend Mary's funeral in order to avoid any awkwardness with RTL.
RE: Mary's friends - RJNorton - 03-31-2015 12:50 PM
(03-31-2015 12:19 PM)Susan Higginbotham Wrote: According to the granddaughter, Mary continued to write to Myra after her return from Europe, but the granddaughter declined to publish the letters, which she described as sweet and chatty, and they apparently have not survived or have not been found.
Any chance Robert Lincoln got hold of them somehow? IMO he burned a lot of his mother's letters.
RE: Mary's friends - Susan Higginbotham - 03-31-2015 12:56 PM
(03-31-2015 12:50 PM)RJNorton Wrote:(03-31-2015 12:19 PM)Susan Higginbotham Wrote: According to the granddaughter, Mary continued to write to Myra after her return from Europe, but the granddaughter declined to publish the letters, which she described as sweet and chatty, and they apparently have not survived or have not been found.
Any chance Robert Lincoln got hold of them somehow? IMO he burned a lot of his mother's letters.
Not in this case, as RTL was dead at the time Myra's granddaughter (Myra Helmer Pritchard) was writing, and the manuscript indicates that Pritchard had the later letters but chose deliberately not to include them.
RE: Mary's friends - RJNorton - 03-31-2015 01:00 PM
Thanks, Susan.
RE: Mary's friends - Donna McCreary - 03-31-2015 01:03 PM
(03-31-2015 07:39 AM)RJNorton Wrote:(03-31-2015 07:11 AM)Gene C Wrote:(03-30-2015 09:02 PM)Donna McCreary Wrote: Speaking of which -- does anyone remember the name of the lady who wrote about Mary at school? Later in life, she moved to Louisville, Kentucky. I can not find her name anywhere!
Are you thinking of Elizabeth Humphreys? She's mentioned in Ruth Randall's book - Mary Lincoln Biography of a Marriage (page 19)
Or Susan Yandell?
YES!!! Susan Yandell. Can you share the source for Susan's name please. I still can not find the right file.
(03-31-2015 07:11 AM)Gene C Wrote:(03-30-2015 09:02 PM)Donna McCreary Wrote: Speaking of which -- does anyone remember the name of the lady who wrote about Mary at school? Later in life, she moved to Louisville, Kentucky. I can not find her name anywhere!
Are you thinking of Elizabeth Humphreys? She's mentioned in Ruth Randall's book - Mary Lincoln Biography of a Marriage (page 19)
Gene, Elizabeth Humphreys was Mary's step-cousin. After her parents had both passed away, Elizabeth and her two sisters came to Lexington to live with their Aunt Besty (Elizabeth Humphreys Todd). Even though Elizabeth lived in the Todd home, she did not attend Mentelle's school with Mary. They were great friends, and it was Elizabeth who was Mary's helper in the "hooped skirt" story. Elizabeth later became Mrs. Norris and lived in Kansas.
RE: Mary's friends - RJNorton - 03-31-2015 01:36 PM
Donna, I got the name from p. 39 of Baker's bio. I was looking for accounts of Mary's experiences at Ward's and came across the name Susan Yandell. There are a few footnotes on p. 376 where Yandell is cited. Yandell is also mentioned on p. 61 of Baker's book.
RE: Mary's friends - LincolnToddFan - 03-31-2015 01:43 PM
(03-31-2015 12:19 PM)Susan Higginbotham Wrote:(03-30-2015 07:36 PM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote: The Bradwells weren't really close friends, and AFAIK Mary didn't keep in touch with them later. Also they didn't attend her funeral.
Myra's granddaughter collected for publication letters that Mary had sent Myra after her release from the asylum, but was prevented from publishing them by the Lincoln family. Jason Emerson published the letters and the granddaughter's manuscript in 2011. Mary sent letters to Myra from Pau, and Myra visited her during a trip to Europe in 1878, which is also the date of the last letter in the granddaughter's manuscript.
According to the granddaughter, Mary continued to write to Myra after her return from Europe, but the granddaughter declined to publish the letters, which she described as sweet and chatty, and they apparently have not survived or have not been found.
My guess is that the Bradwells chose not to attend Mary's funeral in order to avoid any awkwardness with RTL.
I think I agree. The letters that I did read in Jason Emerson's "Madness" show Mary almost pathetically attached to them, writing declarations of eternal love and gratitude. At that point she was-or considered herself-alone in the world. She sounds like a drowning woman grasping at rescue in her letters to the Bradwells...it's so very sad to read.
RTL deeply resented their interference into what he felt was a private, embarrassing family issue.
RE: Mary's friends - Eva Elisabeth - 03-31-2015 04:46 PM
Thanks, Susan and Toia - I remember now...I think the correspondence and Myra's Europe visit was only mentioned in J. Emerson's book (I'll reread...), and the Bradwells' absense at the funeral stuck the most in (to?) my mind, but your explanation that they didn't want to induce Robert's displeasure makes sense.
RE: Mary's friends - Anita - 04-02-2015 12:27 PM
(03-30-2015 09:02 PM)Donna McCreary Wrote: Speaking of which -- does anyone remember the name of the lady who wrote about Mary at school? Later in life, she moved to Louisville, Kentucky. I can not find her name anywhere!
Donna, the name you're looking for is Miss Bodley, afterwards Mrs. Owsley of Louisville, Kentucky. "Mary, Wife of Lincoln" by Katherine Helm, pg. 31
RE: Mary's friends - Donna McCreary - 04-07-2015 02:54 PM
(04-02-2015 12:27 PM)Anita Wrote:(03-30-2015 09:02 PM)Donna McCreary Wrote: Speaking of which -- does anyone remember the name of the lady who wrote about Mary at school? Later in life, she moved to Louisville, Kentucky. I can not find her name anywhere!
Donna, the name you're looking for is Miss Bodley, afterwards Mrs. Owsley of Louisville, Kentucky. "Mary, Wife of Lincoln" by Katherine Helm, pg. 31
Thank you. It seems we have the name of two of Mary's classmates at Ward's. I am digging into the Todd family files. "Bodley" is a surname that appears in the Parker family files. It may be that Miss Bodley was actually a cousin. I am not sure yet.
RE: Mary's friends - Anita - 04-07-2015 04:48 PM
(04-07-2015 02:54 PM)Donna McCreary Wrote:Looking forward to your book and seeing how you pull it all together. There are many of Mary's letters to friends but not that many letters from them to her. Did she keep correspondence sent to her?(04-02-2015 12:27 PM)Anita Wrote:(03-30-2015 09:02 PM)Donna McCreary Wrote: Speaking of which -- does anyone remember the name of the lady who wrote about Mary at school? Later in life, she moved to Louisville, Kentucky. I can not find her name anywhere!
Donna, the name you're looking for is Miss Bodley, afterwards Mrs. Owsley of Louisville, Kentucky. "Mary, Wife of Lincoln" by Katherine Helm, pg. 31
Thank you. It seems we have the name of two of Mary's classmates at Ward's. I am digging into the Todd family files. "Bodley" is a surname that appears in the Parker family files. It may be that Miss Bodley was actually a cousin. I am not sure yet.
RE: Mary's friends - Donna McCreary - 04-10-2015 01:27 PM
(04-07-2015 04:48 PM)Anita Wrote:(04-07-2015 02:54 PM)Donna McCreary Wrote:Looking forward to your book and seeing how you pull it all together. There are many of Mary's letters to friends but not that many letters from them to her. Did she keep correspondence sent to her?(04-02-2015 12:27 PM)Anita Wrote:(03-30-2015 09:02 PM)Donna McCreary Wrote: Speaking of which -- does anyone remember the name of the lady who wrote about Mary at school? Later in life, she moved to Louisville, Kentucky. I can not find her name anywhere!
Donna, the name you're looking for is Miss Bodley, afterwards Mrs. Owsley of Louisville, Kentucky. "Mary, Wife of Lincoln" by Katherine Helm, pg. 31
Thank you. It seems we have the name of two of Mary's classmates at Ward's. I am digging into the Todd family files. "Bodley" is a surname that appears in the Parker family files. It may be that Miss Bodley was actually a cousin. I am not sure yet.
Anita, there are letters written by her family and friends in achieves. Since everything is filed under the name of the person who wrote the letter, finding the letter is often difficult.
As far as to whether or not Miss Bodley was related, I can not tell. I have files on the family, but nothing listing children who would have been Mary's contemporaries.
RE: Mary's friends - Anita - 04-10-2015 02:53 PM
(04-10-2015 01:27 PM)Donna McCreary Wrote: [quote='Anita' pid='46178' dateline='1428443339']
[quote='Donna McCreary' pid='46173' dateline='1428436491']
[quote='Anita' pid='45
Anita, there are letters written by her family and friends in achieves. Since everything is filed under the name of the person who wrote the letter, finding the letter is often difficult.
As far as to whether or not Miss Bodley was related, I can not tell. I have files on the family, but nothing listing children who would have been Mary's contemporaries.
I can see you have challenges ahead with your research. Thanks for your efforts.
We all benefit.
RE: Mary's friends - Gene C - 05-12-2016 08:36 AM
An interesting article in the Spring issue of Kentucky Humanities entitled
"Emilie Todd Helm & Mary Todd Lincoln - We Weep for our Dead Together" by Angela Esco Elder
(page 22)
https://www.kyhumanities.org/magazine.html