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+--- Forum: Mary Lincoln and the Boys (/forum-4.html)
+--- Thread: What would you ask? (/thread-133.html)
RE: What would you ask? - RJNorton - 08-03-2012 04:04 AM
Hi Donna. The article is online here.
In the past I have exchanged several e-mails with Dr. Hirschhorn, and he believes in his theory just as Dr. Sotos feels Abraham Lincoln had MEN2B. Both doctors seem quite convinced their theories are correct.
RE: What would you ask? - Donna McCreary - 08-17-2012 02:20 PM
(07-27-2012 10:32 PM)Rogerm Wrote: Since Mary did not get along well with her step-mother, did she find another woman who might have served as a mother figure?
I think this is an interesting question with many different answers. Mary always said that she considered her sister Elizabeth a mother figure. Mary was very close to her maternal grandmother - who lived next door and was very close to her daughter's children. Mary was also close to Mammy Sally who raised the Todd children.
What I still need to research is the relationship Mary had with older women as an adult.
Women often tend to develop friendships with older women because they guide us, advise us, and comfort us as our mothers did (or still do). Mary was close to her cousin Elizabeth Grimsley, but I often wonder what type of relationship did she have with Elizabeth's mother? When Mary moved to Washington, was there an older woman whom she went to for advice? Any ideas?
RE: What would you ask? - Rogerm - 08-17-2012 05:22 PM
Donna. Thank you for addressing my question further. How would you qualify Mary Lincoln's relationship with Mrs. Keckley?
RE: What would you ask? - L Verge - 08-17-2012 05:56 PM
I would love to know your interpretation of the Mary/Elizabeth relationship also. And, what about hr friendship with Mrs. Gideon Welles?
RE: What would you ask? - Donna McCreary - 08-17-2012 06:48 PM
The relationship between Mary and Elizabeth Keckly is an interesting one. Historians claim they were good friends. In Keckly's book, she claims to have been Mary's confident. The tone of many of the letters Mary wrote to Mrs. Keckly do not seem to me as those written to a dear, loving friend. She signed them, "Your friend" -- but the tone is bossy. "Do not leave this house without seeing me. COME!" --- "Write me, dear Lizzy, if only a line; I cannot understand your silence." Mary complains that Lizzy does not write often enough. Mary never seems to ask Lizzy to do her a favor, Mary demands actions from Lizzy.
But then, Mary tells Lizzy the most intimate details of her life. It is Lizzy whom she tells she wishes to take her own life. She trust Lizzy to help with selling the wardrobe. She shares financial information with her. But most of the letters are about the clothing sale - business - so it is difficult to fully understand the relationship between the two women. I would like to think they were friends, if not best friends. I kind of think of Lizzy like the modern hair dresser. You hire them to complete a task; you can tell them your deepest thoughts; you may become extremely friendly with them; but they are not your closest friends. Perhaps that is how Mary thought of Mrs. Kekcly. Lizzy, however, I believe was truly devoted to Mary as a friend. She put her own life and business on hold to help Mary -- more than once. Only a true, devoted friend would take such action when another is distressed.
The relationship with Mary Jane Welles was true friendship on both sides. Mary's letters to her are chatty - filled with informtion and questions about family. Mary told Mary Jane about the duel Lincoln almost fought. They gave one another gifts. They discussed politics. It is a shame that Mary could not leave politics out of the relationship and chose to make a political statement at the expense of a true friend.
RE: What would you ask? - L Verge - 08-18-2012 12:36 PM
Thank you, Donna, for such a well-thought-out answer to both questions. As you may or may not know, Surratt House Museum and its wonderful volunteer affiliate, the Surratt Society, undertook the project of marking Elizabeth Keckly's grave in National Harmony Cemetery in 2010. Mrs. Keckly's remains had been removed to this new cemetery in the 1950s, but her tombstone did not come with her.
For years, we thought that she might be in a mass grave, in an unknown plot, or whatever - until Rich Smyth of this forum found a cooperative staff member at National Harmony who found the paperwork. He approached us, and the fundraising ($6000) began. We got support not only from our Society members, but also the Lincoln Forum and the Black Women United for Action of Fairfax, Virginia.
In the meantime, the research librarian at Surratt House did a monumental job of nailing down correct history on Mrs. Keckly. That effort has subsequently led to Surratt House nominating and winning recognition for Mrs. Keckly in the Network to Freedom Initiative of the National Park Service based on her help in feeding and clothing the contraband who poured into Washington during and after the war. Our help has also been sought recently by the proposed new Smithsonian museum on African American history as they prepare exhibits. Mrs. Keckly will be featured in the field of fashion design -- the route that bought her freedom and friendship within the Lincoln White House.
One more question: I believe that Mrs. Lincoln requested Keckly's presence at the Petersen House on the night of the assassination, but the courier could not find the lady's home. There was another friend of Mrs. Lincoln who did come, I think, but I can't remember her name. Who was she and what was her friendship like with Mary Lincoln?
RE: What would you ask? - LincolnMan - 08-18-2012 08:44 PM
Donna: There is a Michigan mystery concerning Mary. I have heard it said that as a widow, she stopped off in Marquette, Michigan and stayed at a hotel. Apparently, she was traveling on the Great Lakes. Do you have any info on this? Have you heard the story? Purely selfish reasons for wanting to know-as I live in Michigan. I pass through that beautiful city several times a year.
RE: What would you ask? - RJNorton - 08-19-2012 03:54 AM
Bill, several years ago I received this e-mail:
-----------------------------------------------------------
Hello,
I'm researching Mary Todd Lincoln and her little-known travels to the Lake Superior area in the summer of 1867. I'm wondering if you know of any information about this, or have suggestions for me as far as further research. I have done a fair amount of research already but am following every lead in hopes to discover more information.
Thank you very much,
--------------------------------------------------------------
I drew a blank when I tried to research this, but I still have this lady's email address. Would you like to write her and see what she has discovered? I will send it to you if you would like to get in touch with her.
RE: What would you ask? - LincolnMan - 08-19-2012 06:21 AM
Roger: oh yes, very much!
RE: What would you ask? - RJNorton - 08-19-2012 07:58 AM
Bill, I will send it to you, and I wish you good luck. I believe when I researched this I found she traveled to Racine in the summer of 1867. But I could not find that she traveled north of there.
RE: What would you ask? - Donna McCreary - 08-19-2012 09:27 AM
Mary did travel quite a bit. She visited Racine, Wisconson in 1867. Just before leaving for Europe, she spent several weeks in Pennsylvania. In 1873, she wrote to her cousin John Todd Stuart, "Owing to much indisposition during the past year & whilst in Canada for months . . . " We can safely say that the lady got around. I do not have specific information about a trip to Michigan, but it is most likely she was there. I have heard that she stored trunks somewhere in Michigan.
Roger, I am also interested in learning more about Mary's travels during this time in her life. Any information will be helpful.
RE: What would you ask? - RJNorton - 08-19-2012 09:39 AM
Hi Donna. One of the most valuable books I own is called Following in Lincoln's Footsteps: A Complete Annotated Reference to Hundreds of Historical Sites Visited by Abraham Lincoln by Ralph Gary. It is a wonderful resource for all U.S. locations ever visited by either Mary or Abraham. Whenever I receive an e-mail through my website asking, "Was Abraham or Mary ever in my town," I immediately go to Mr. Gary's book to find the answer.
Another excellent resource is an article by Dr. Wayne Temple in the Journal of the Illinois State Historical Society. Go here.
RE: What would you ask? - LincolnMan - 08-19-2012 10:30 AM
Roger, I'm assuming there is no mention of Mary visiting Northern Michigan in the book you cited?
RE: What would you ask? - RJNorton - 08-19-2012 12:32 PM
Bill, that is correct. Nothing at all.
RE: What would you ask? - rbrugler - 08-23-2012 11:12 AM
What were the actual interactions that she had with the folks of Springfield and Washington City?