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+--- Thread: The Baltimore Plot: What was Pinkerton Thinking? (/thread-1195.html)
RE: The Baltimore Plot: What was Pinkerton Thinking? - LincolnMan - 10-07-2013 05:50 PM
Im reminded that he talked about returning to his law practice with "Billy" after his time as president was over. I don't think he regretted his choice of a law partner.
RE: The Baltimore Plot: What was Pinkerton Thinking? - Eva Elisabeth - 10-07-2013 06:05 PM
Agreed, and before leaving, he had advised Billy Herndon not to remove the sign of their law office.
RE: The Baltimore Plot: What was Pinkerton Thinking? - maharba - 02-09-2016 11:15 AM
I thought about starting a new thread, with some title like
The Baltimore Plot -- First Assassination of Lincoln Attempt
but I decided instead to jump in here in this thread as it is framed in place. I'm really not emphasizing Pinkerton though.
My short term interest is in naming the players, some biography of them, and what happened to them, and why weren't they eliminated at the outset, and did these same men work with the Confederacy and JWBooth to complete the job and the assassination of Abraham Lincoln in April 1865.
After Lincoln was executed and JWBooth had escaped, why did not the War Office and or the general public clamor for the re-arrest and execution of these men named in "The Baltimore Plot" of 1861?
The Baltimore Plot was certainly an early plot to assassinate Lincoln, before he could take office. None of these men were ever prosecuted. I like the way Ward Lamon writes it up.
"The reports are all in the form of personal narratives..when the spies went to bed, when they rose, where they ate, what saloons and brothels they visited...Luckett declared that he
knew a man who would kill Lincoln...Mr. Luckett...introduced me to Capt. Ferrandina and Capt. Turner...Ferrandina ...was willing to give his life for Lincoln's...But...Ferrandina...did no more than many others around him were doing at the same time. He drank and talked, and made swelling speeches; but he never took, nor seriously thought of taking, the first step...
RE: The Baltimore Plot: What was Pinkerton Thinking? - L Verge - 02-09-2016 11:30 AM
I believe I remember from your numerous posts that you are allergic to reading books. However, I do recommend that you read Michael Kline's The Baltimore Plot: The First Conspiracy to Assassinate Abraham Lincoln and also Daniel Stashower's The Hour of Peril: The Secret Plot to Murder Lincoln Before the Civil War. Both are great pieces of research and writing.
RE: The Baltimore Plot: What was Pinkerton Thinking? - maharba - 02-09-2016 07:17 PM
I am 'less able to access' new books than some folks, yes. And thanks for the suggestions. I have seen online excerpts from Kline's book, but not checked for Stashower book online, yet. I will though. So far, I have made an effort in history to run down a dozen or so folks may be relevant in The
Baltimore Plot. Anytime, anyone wants to post a Review/Summary of new books, those are very useful in research, to be sure.
RE: The Baltimore Plot: What was Pinkerton Thinking? - L Verge - 02-09-2016 07:45 PM
(02-09-2016 07:17 PM)maharba Wrote: I am 'less able to access' new books than some folks, yes. And thanks for the suggestions. I have seen online excerpts from Kline's book, but not checked for Stashower book online, yet. I will though. So far, I have made an effort in history to run down a dozen or so folks may be relevant in The
Baltimore Plot. Anytime, anyone wants to post a Review/Summary of new books, those are very useful in research, to be sure.
Please just be careful in depending a great deal on reviews and summaries. You are basically getting one person's opinion on the quality of the book or essay. And, there may be some very important facts and details left out of the review or overlooked by the reviewer. It is always best for you to be the judge.
BTW: Is your problem with access to books based on distance from stores? Amazon has been a godsend to me.
RE: The Baltimore Plot: What was Pinkerton Thinking? - Gene C - 02-09-2016 07:48 PM
(02-09-2016 11:15 AM)maharba Wrote: My short term interest is in naming the players, some biography of them, and what happened to them, and why weren't they eliminated at the outset, and did these same men work with the Confederacy and JWBooth to complete the job and the assassination of Abraham Lincoln in April 1865.
The Baltimore Plot was certainly an early plot to assassinate Lincoln, before he could take office. None of these men were ever prosecuted.
Not sure who you consider "the players".
Part of the reason some of these men were never prosecuted was for political reasons. Lincoln had to keep Maryland in the Union or the nations capital would be surrounded by Confederate states. The railroads the needed Union troops traveled by all ran through Maryland. Ships are to slow, and there are not enough of them to move the number of troops needed at this time. From a practical standpoint, loose your capital city in the first months of a war and it's basically over, your public support to maintain one united country is gone. Maryland must stay in the Union at all costs.
Lincoln is not going to rock the boat and create additional tension with Maryland. At the time he is still hoping for a peaceful solution instead of war. And most everyone thinks if there is a war, it will be a short one. But all the Union troops will still have to travel by rail through Maryland. It is a very sensitive political problem. It's hard to imagine since there has been nothing even close to this in our lifetime.
Once Maryland is safely in the Union several of the rabble rousers in Maryland are arrested, some flee south or to Europe. Some just try to keep a low profile.
Note: I read Stashower's book and enjoyed it, but I don't remember it having the information you are looking for. Libraries are a lot better than they used to be. If your library doesn't have a copy, they can usually get one for you from another library in your state. All you have to do is ask.
RE: The Baltimore Plot: What was Pinkerton Thinking? - RJNorton - 02-10-2016 04:55 AM
For some reason I have always had problems getting a grasp on the Baltimore Plot. I think part of this feeling is due to the fact that some experts have questioned its existence. For example, Harold Holzer writes, "If a Baltimore Plot existed at all, it was at most ad hoc, poorly organized and probably destined to fail." If he were right I would think prosecution of those involved might have been challenging.
RE: The Baltimore Plot: What was Pinkerton Thinking? - maharba - 02-10-2016 11:23 AM
Thanks for the suggestions and the note about the Stashower book, Gene. I like your analysis, too, of the situation in Maryland as it applies in this case. Maybe there really was not a firm execution plot, maybe Pinkerton was inflating himself. But, like The Legend of John Wilkes Booth, there surely was a man who claimed to be, and so, like the parties here, is subject to being tracked in history. Here are some of the names I'm working on, at present.
James H. Luckett, a stock broker
William H. H. Turner, a Baltimore Circuit Court clerk
Otis K. Hillard or Hilliard
Mr. Starr a reporter for a Baltimore paper
William Byrne, a Baltimore liquor salesman
Cipriano Ferrandini, a barber
George Nicholas Sanders, a govt official, later on the Most Wanted List. He actually was listed in 1865 as a Wanted conspirator with a large Bounty offered for his capture.
RE: The Baltimore Plot: What was Pinkerton Thinking? - Gene C - 02-10-2016 12:28 PM
You may find this interesting regarding Cipriani Ferrandini, if you haven't already read this
http://msa.maryland.gov/megafile/msa/speccol/sc3500/sc3520/014400/014473/html/14473bio.html
RE: The Baltimore Plot: What was Pinkerton Thinking? - L Verge - 02-10-2016 07:44 PM
(02-10-2016 11:23 AM)maharba Wrote: Thanks for the suggestions and the note about the Stashower book, Gene. I like your analysis, too, of the situation in Maryland as it applies in this case. Maybe there really was not a firm execution plot, maybe Pinkerton was inflating himself. But, like The Legend of John Wilkes Booth, there surely was a man who claimed to be, and so, like the parties here, is subject to being tracked in history. Here are some of the names I'm working on, at present.
James H. Luckett, a stock broker
William H. H. Turner, a Baltimore Circuit Court clerk
Otis K. Hillard or Hilliard
Mr. Starr a reporter for a Baltimore paper
William Byrne, a Baltimore liquor salesman
Cipriano Ferrandini, a barber
George Nicholas Sanders, a govt official, later on the Most Wanted List. He actually was listed in 1865 as a Wanted conspirator with a large Bounty offered for his capture.
Look really hard at Cipriano Ferrandini. And consider that he was an immigrant from Corsica at a time when revolutionaries were sweeping through Europe trying to overthrow tyrannical heads of state. To such men, Abraham Lincoln represented that type of tyranny even before he took office. George Nicholas Sanders was a protege of the revolutionaries and a first-class instigator back here in America.
(02-10-2016 12:28 PM)Gene C Wrote: You may find this interesting regarding Cipriani Ferrandini, if you haven't already read this
http://msa.maryland.gov/megafile/msa/speccol/sc3500/sc3520/014400/014473/html/14473bio.html
Thanks for this link, Gene. This article was done by former State Archivist Ed Papenfuse, a very good historian. I doubt he would waste time on the subject of Ferrandini if he didn't see at least some live embers under the smoke.
RE: The Baltimore Plot: What was Pinkerton Thinking? - maharba - 02-12-2016 09:20 PM
Look really hard at Cipriano Ferrandini. And consider that he was an immigrant from Corsica at a time when revolutionaries were sweeping through Europe trying to overthrow tyrannical heads of state. To such men, Abraham Lincoln represented that type of tyranny even before he took office. George Nicholas Sanders was a protege of the revolutionaries and a first-class instigator back here in America.>
Some keen insights into what, in a much larger picture, may have been taking place --and that George N. Sanders was a heavy player in politics in the USA and Europe too. I am researching him. And yes Gene that is a very good article on Ciprianno and the ominous 'Corsican' connection of professional assassins, military adventurers. My current thinking is the the Otis K. Hillard was an alias, hard to trace.
I'm sure there are more (and more modern than my research)
books on this topic, and likely I am somewhat duplicating their
recent efforts.
RE: The Baltimore Plot: What was Pinkerton Thinking? - maharba - 02-17-2016 09:50 PM
The supposed assassination plot was of several forms. One was to clog the streets when Lincoln got off the train, and a dozen men to work their forward with knives and pistols to get rid of Lincoln and his cronies. Or another method would have been to throw molotov cocktails bombs under his carriage and then kill Lincoln. Pinkerton also appeared to believe that, if the conspirators knew with timetable accuracy the train and the route, they might pull apart the tracks say just after a sharp curve, derailing the (fast approaching) train and then murder Lincoln and company.
RE: The Baltimore Plot: What was Pinkerton Thinking? - RJNorton - 03-04-2017 09:34 AM
(09-29-2013 03:09 PM)Gene C Wrote: Anyone know anything about Kate Warne's involvement in the Baltimore plot?
TIME has an article on Kate Warne here:
http://time.com/4689230/first-female-detective/
RE: The Baltimore Plot: What was Pinkerton Thinking? - RJNorton - 04-03-2020 09:30 AM
https://www.wearethemighty.com/history/kate-warne-female-detective?rebelltitem=3#rebelltitem3