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+--- Thread: Who Said This? (/thread-2480.html)
RE: Who Said This? - Eva Elisabeth - 09-17-2018 09:06 AM
(Sorry for delay, needed time to edit!)
Kudos, Roger, well done!
The painting by William Hodges is entitled Jacques and the Wounded Stag: 'As You Like It,' Act II, Scene I.
"Chicago journalist Horace White was just 20 when he met Mr. Lincoln shortly before his famous Springfield speech in October 1854. “I had studied his countenance a few moments beforehand, when his features were in repose. It was a marked face, but so overspread with sadness that I thought that Shakespeare’s melancholy Jacques had been translated from the forest of Arden to the capital of Illinois.
Please go here for more, and the source (#13) :
http://www.mrlincolnandfriends.org/makes-friends/
Roger, you win a trip to the very forest, to a country club of your choice (there are plenty) :
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arden,_Warwickshire
RE: Who Said This? - RJNorton - 09-17-2018 09:40 AM
Thanks, Eva! When I was in high school I was on the cross country team, and one school we competed against had a course through a forested-area. I loved it!
RE: Who Said This? - Eva Elisabeth - 09-17-2018 02:43 PM
For quite a long time after reading and seeing the play I self-evidently thought it takes place in the Ardennes, and Arden was just the English name for that forest (belonging to Belgium, France and Luxemburg) because I grew up at the Belgian (and Dutch) border, not far from there, and I can tell you, Belgium is an allegory of tristesse and melancholy. Not just the landscape, also such as Magritte paintings (which I like) and Jaques Brel (I like, too).
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q_bq5mStroM
RE: Who Said This? - Rogerm - 09-17-2018 03:53 PM
The famous American singer, Glenn Campbell, sang a version of this song("Ne me quittes pas") in English which included the words "Don't go away! Don't go away."; which are a loose translation of the songs French title.
RE: Who Said This? - Steve - 09-17-2018 06:17 PM
(09-15-2018 07:05 PM)Steve Wrote:(09-15-2018 09:31 AM)David Lockmiller Wrote:(09-15-2018 08:57 AM)RJNorton Wrote: I agree, David. I have seen that quote attributed to Lincoln on the Internet but never have found a legitimate original source for it.
Thanks, Roger. The comments section to this Op-Ed was already closed when I made my post to which you responded. Otherwise, I would make a comment to the effect that it is never a good idea to misquote Abraham Lincoln.
And, I just submitted the following proposed letter-to-the-editor of the New York Times:
In the New York Times Op-Ed,"The Secret to Cracking Trump’s Base," (Sept. 14, 2018), Timothy Egan wrote that Abraham Lincoln said: “No man has a good enough memory to be a successful liar."
I could not find an identifiable, reliable source for this alleged Lincoln quotation. It is never a good idea to misquote Abraham Lincoln.
I traced some of the history of where the quote comes from. The earliest I could find it in a slightly different form is from a widespread 1907 print ad for the Ford Model K. The advertisement attributes the quote to Robert Ingersoll, but I don't know if that's true or not:
https://books.google.com/books?id=ytxDAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA132-IA31&lpg=PA132-IA31&dq=%22to+be+a+successful+liar+one+must+have+a+good+memory%22&source=bl&ots=hWmSXZKTpA&sig=W8JcLozWlq5gDz0cg77N1OArSog&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwixyP_tmL7dAhXyzVkKHW_bDpAQ6AEwAnoECAcQAQ#v=onepage&q=%22to%20be%20a%20successful%20liar%20one%20must%20have%20a%20good%20memory%22&f=false
In 1910, the quote appears in newspapers in a form closer to the present day version of the quote:
https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn99021999/1910-10-30/ed-1/seq-12/#date1=1789&index=0&rows=20&searchType=advanced&language=&sequence=0&words=liar+make+memory+successful&proxdistance=5&date2=1927&ortext=&proxtext=&phrasetext=memory+to+make+a+successful+liar&andtext=&dateFilterType=yearRange&page=1
And the earliest attribution of the quote to Abraham Lincoln I could find was from February 1927 which is almost identical to the present version of the quote:
https://archive.org/stream/WinStar_010727_032527/WinStar_1927_1#page/n57/search/%22successful+liar%22
A quick update. I've found the earlier version of the quote in 19th century newspapers, unattributed. The earliest I found it was from this article from page 2 of the November 4, 1848 edition of the Wisconsin Democrat:
[attachment=2946]
RE: Who Said This? - Susan Higginbotham - 11-06-2018 09:43 AM
"Since I come of a generation which was not facile in the matter of public speaking, I am sure you will allow me to say simply that I welcome you sincerely, cordially, and that I thank you."
Who said this, and on what occasion? Hint: it was said after 1865 by a person who knew Lincoln.
RE: Who Said This? - RJNorton - 11-06-2018 10:18 AM
Wild guess - Sojourner Truth?
RE: Who Said This? - Susan Higginbotham - 11-06-2018 12:24 PM
No, but the gender is correct.
RE: Who Said This? - RJNorton - 11-06-2018 12:51 PM
Elizabeth Edwards?
RE: Who Said This? - Susan Higginbotham - 11-06-2018 01:34 PM
No, but you're getting warmer.
RE: Who Said This? - Steve - 11-06-2018 01:53 PM
Emily Todd Helm
RE: Who Said This? - Thomas Kearney - 11-06-2018 02:42 PM
Frederick Douglas?
RE: Who Said This? - AussieMick - 11-06-2018 03:31 PM
I'll try the obvious ... Mary Lincoln?
RE: Who Said This? - Susan Higginbotham - 11-06-2018 03:33 PM
Steve is correct. What was the occasion?
RE: Who Said This? - RJNorton - 11-06-2018 03:52 PM
She was introduced at the meeting of the National American Woman Suffrage Association in 1911 in Louisville. She rose from her seat and said the quote in the question.