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Jefferson Davis CDV? - Printable Version

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Jefferson Davis CDV? - windband - 03-17-2017 08:29 AM

I recently acquired a large lot of Books, photos and Ephemera from the estate of Virginia Miller (daughter of famous white house doctor Dr. Thomas Miller). Among the items is an unidentified photo of an elderly man that I believe may be Jefferson Davis. Dr. Miller was very close with the Davis family so much so that Mrs. Jefferson Davis stayed with Dr. Miller while Jefferson Davis was imprisoned at Fortress Monroe (according the book Dr. Thomas Miller and His Times) so it's not unreasonable that they would have been given his photo. The CDV looks very similar to other depictions of Jefferson Davis but I could not find an exact match of this CDV. Any thoughts on the CDV would be appreciated.

Thanks

RE: Jefferson Davis CDV? - Houmes - 03-17-2017 02:16 PM

(03-17-2017 08:29 AM)windband Wrote:  I recently acquired a large lot of Books, photos and Ephemera from the estate of Virginia Miller (daughter of famous white house doctor Dr. Thomas Miller). Among the items is an unidentified photo of an elderly man that I believe may be Jefferson Davis. Dr. Miller was very close with the Davis family so much so that Mrs. Jefferson Davis stayed with Dr. Miller while Jefferson Davis was imprisoned at Fortress Monroe (according the book Dr. Thomas Miller and His Times) so it's not unreasonable that they would have been given his photo. The CDV looks very similar to other depictions of Jefferson Davis but I could not find an exact match of this CDV. Any thoughts on the CDV would be appreciated.

Thanks

Ear, mouth, lateral right eyebrow all match.

RE: Jefferson Davis CDV? - Gene C - 03-17-2017 02:30 PM

I looked at some photo's of Davis taken after the war.
I'm not sure, I think it has some potential. I would have to study it further before I said no.

RE: Jefferson Davis CDV? - RJNorton - 03-17-2017 02:42 PM

Could be, Dan.

[Image: possiblydavis.jpg] [Image: possiblydavis1.jpg]


RE: Jefferson Davis CDV? - L Verge - 03-17-2017 02:42 PM

There is a photo of him ca. 1885 on Wikipedia. It's a dark photo of him in profile sitting on a park bench. If our graphics people on this forum know how to lighten the photo, you might be able to get a comparison. I tried cutting and pasting to no avail.

I will say that the fuller beard is very similar to the gentleman's in your CDV. My hold-back is that his face in your CDV appears much longer than the usual photo(s) we see of Davis.
Go here, hopefully it will open up the photo
https://featherfoster.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/the-elder-davis-family.jpg

And here: https://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?p=Photos+of+an+elderly+Jefferson+Davis&fr=yfp-t-s&imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fi.ebayimg.com%2Fimages%2Fg%2FRsUAAOSw44BYPCXt%2Fs-l300.jpg#id=2&iurl=http%3A%2F%2Fi.ebayimg.com%2Fimages%2Fg%2FRsUAAOSw44BYPCXt%2Fs-l300.jpg&action=click

I think we may have a winner!

Me again - keep scrolling through that last link 'cause there are others of an elderly Davis - one of which appears to be the same bench photo that Roger posted below, only from Davis's back.

RE: Jefferson Davis CDV? - RJNorton - 03-17-2017 02:57 PM

(03-17-2017 02:42 PM)L Verge Wrote:  There is a photo of him ca. 1885 on Wikipedia. It's a dark photo of him in profile sitting on a park bench.

This photo may be a little lighter.

RE: Jefferson Davis CDV? - Jim Garrett - 03-18-2017 07:19 AM

I have to say that the nose doesn't work for me. While there is a resemblance, I have to say no

RE: Jefferson Davis CDV? - Eva Elisabeth - 03-18-2017 08:47 AM

Very difficult to say. Amazing resemblance - especially the nose. As for the eyebrow line the curve seems different to me - straighter in the middle in the original while the CDV from the root of the nose moves up above the eyes and then down again. And the upper margin of the ear overlaps less in the middle of the original where as there seems more bulgy in the CDV. Yet the ears resemble pretty well (and grow lifelong, so the impression may slightly change). It may confuse that the hair parts on the other side which may be a matter of inverted copy.

RE: Jefferson Davis CDV? - L Verge - 03-18-2017 12:00 PM

Hopefully, everyone will open those other links I found and not make the comparison solely on the one CDV. The hook in the nose and the more elongated face threw me also until I looked at those other, authentic photos of the elderly Davis.

We need Blaine to weigh in again on how much a person's facial features can change over time - especially based on the amount of stress he/she may have endured at certain points in life. Can that cause a change? I have lost a great deal of weight in the past six months, and I notice a lot of change in my visage.

RE: Jefferson Davis CDV? - Eva Elisabeth - 03-18-2017 04:21 PM

Just look at the change in Abraham Lincoln's facial features. What wouldn't change unless through accident or surgery is anything skull. Basically the nose and ears are a good feature to compare - yet they can change, the nose e.g. through alcohol other drug abuse. The ears, as I said, grow lifelong. Diseases can do a lot either. Some African tribes (artificially) "extend" their lips or neck. The shape of the orbita is a feature difficult to change (unless violently...)

RE: Jefferson Davis CDV? - windband - 03-18-2017 09:46 PM

Thanks for everyone's feedback. The other thing about the CDV that makes it very unique is that is appears the copyright note is in the hand of Matthew Brady. His signature is very rare especially in one of his photographs.

RE: Jefferson Davis CDV? - L Verge - 03-19-2017 11:40 AM

Can anyone make out the date on the photo (at the end of Brady's signature)? It appears to be 1879 to me, and that may give us a clue.

Brady expected the U.S. Government to buy his wonderful Civil War collection when the war ended, but they never did. Finally, in 1875, they gave him a small stipend for his services. By that time, he had been declared blind and had to close his studio and declare bankruptcy. Here's what one source described:

"Brady and his Studio produced over 7,000 pictures (mostly two negatives of each). One set 'after undergoing extraordinary vicissitudes,' came into U.S. government possession. His own negatives passed in the 1870s to E. & H. T. Anthony & Company of New York, in default of payment for photographic supplies. They 'were kicked about from pillar to post' for 10 years, until John C. Taylor found them in an attic and bought them; from this they became 'the backbone' of the Ordway–Rand collection; and in 1895 Brady himself had no idea of what had become of them. Many were broken, lost, or destroyed by fire. After passing to various other owners, they were discovered and appreciated by Edward Bailey Eaton, 'who set in motion' events that led to their importance as the nucleus of a collection of Civil War photos published in 1912 as The Photographic History of the Civil War.[19]

"Some of the lost images are mentioned in the last episode of Ken Burns' 1990 documentary on the Civil War. Burns claims that glass plate negatives were often sold to gardeners, not for their images, but for the glass itself to be used in greenhouses and cold frames. In the years that followed the end of the war, the sun slowly burned away their filmy images and they were lost."

Brady remained destitute until his death in 1896, when he died in a charity ward in New York's Presbyterian Hospital. It was then that his nephew resurrected the business.

Brady did photograph a number of Confederates, including Lee, Stonewall Jackson, PGT Beauregard, and Davis. However, I think all of those were done during or shortly after the war. The copyright date on your CDV might help determine the identity, if it is of an elderly Davis.

BTW: Is it a small CDV or a larger cabinet card?

RE: Jefferson Davis CDV? - RJNorton - 03-19-2017 12:03 PM

Laurie, I think the date is 1880.

RE: Jefferson Davis CDV? - L Verge - 03-19-2017 12:50 PM

(03-19-2017 12:03 PM)RJNorton Wrote:  Laurie, I think the date is 1880.

The photo of him seated on a bench at his home is in the possession of the Library of Congress and is dated 1885 and credited to the Centennial Photographic Co.

The timing here is getting a bit confusing. I feel that Brady was out of business by 1875; and would he have been able to photograph Davis either at Beauvoir or NYC if Davis traveled north?

RE: Jefferson Davis CDV? - Eva Elisabeth - 03-19-2017 02:14 PM

What does the rest of the "signature" read (except for the date and name)? Can anyone figure?