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+--- Thread: Removing Confederate Generals portraits? (/thread-1384.html)
Removing Confederate Generals portraits? - Gene C - 12-18-2013 03:05 PM
Real issue or just trying to sell newspapers?
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/dec/17/robert-e-lee-and-stonewall-jackson-tributes-face-a/?page=all#pagebreak
Should they or shouldn't they be removed?
RE: Removing Confederate Generals portraits? - L Verge - 12-18-2013 03:46 PM
Given the p.c. **** that we now deal with in society, I am sure that this will likely become a real issue. Pretty soon, there will be a movement to just eliminate the Civil War from our books and minds.
Oh wait! That won't happen because certain elements of us need to keep that in the forefront in order to reinforce the guilt complex that is supposed to plague America so that the radicals can advance their causes. Let's keep the old "divide and conquer" theory going in order to stir up another revolt among the people.
What a ridiculous thought it is anyhow that two of the greatest military strategists that our country has produced should even have their faces shown in public places -- especially in a facility that teaches the tactics of war. God forbid that we should learn how to defeat future enemies by studying two men who continue to be considered great in that field.
P.S. Where is the smiley face with tongue in cheek? Better yet, the one that is throwing up at this idea?
RE: Removing Confederate Generals portraits? - Gene C - 12-18-2013 04:01 PM
(12-18-2013 03:46 PM)L Verge Wrote: P.S. Where is the smiley face with tongue in cheek? Better yet, the one that is throwing up at this idea?
Here it is -
- :and here 
- Gene
RE: Removing Confederate Generals portraits? - J. Beckert - 12-18-2013 04:42 PM
More pandering to what some see as modern sensibilities by trying to judge the character of those who lived in a different era. It's shameful. Even Lincoln himself said Lee was a good man. Those folks might do better reading a little of our history instead of apologizing and trying to re-write it.
RE: Removing Confederate Generals portraits? - BettyO - 12-18-2013 05:45 PM
I wholeheartedly concur. It is a shame indeed when our country's history is allowed to be "whitewashed." Lee and Jackson were wonderfully competent generals and strategists and it's a crying shame to see them vilified just to pacify some PC besotted individuals.....
Even if the portraits were taken down for inventory - I fear this type of mindset is not too far off in the future.
One wonders what Lincoln would think about this?
Remember that one must know and understand the past in order to make clear decisions in the future. The past mirrors the present.
[attachment=332] Here's your emoticon, Laurie!
RE: Removing Confederate Generals portraits? - LincolnMan - 12-18-2013 08:57 PM
I don't know how long the pictures have been hanging, but graduates of the college like Patton, Bradley, and Eisenhower apparently had no problem with it. Another alumni of the college- General McAuliffe- who famously replied to the German request for his American forces surrounded at Bastogne to surrender with one word "Nuts!" - apparently had no problem with the pictures either. I think I will use the Generals reply to respond to the notion of taking down the pictures: "Nuts!"
RE: Removing Confederate Generals portraits? - L Verge - 12-19-2013 09:10 AM
An excellent response, Bill. Thank you.
RE: Removing Confederate Generals portraits? - Hess1865 - 12-19-2013 09:16 AM
PC is BS IMO
RE: Removing Confederate Generals portraits? - Rob Wick - 12-19-2013 10:51 AM
Can someone tell me, without using the meaningless buzzword "political correctness" exactly why i should care? Read this from Major General Tony Cucolo, Commandant of the US Army War College:
Here is what happened: a few weeks ago, while relocating his office to a new floor in our main school building over the weekend, one of my leaders looked outside his new office location and simply decided to change the look of the hallway. He took down, off the wall, a number of framed Civil War prints that depicted Confederate States of America forces in action against Union forces or depicted famous Confederate leaders. He did this on his own. There was no directive to “remove all traces of the CSA.” Since this is a public hallway with seminar rooms and offices, the sudden new look drew attention the following week. And since there was no public explanation of my leader’s action, some of my folks jumped to conclusions, even to the point of sending anonymous notes to local media. We have since attempted to clarify the action within our own ranks.
If it matters to any of you, you could walk into this building today, and see ornately framed paintings and even a few prints similar to the ones that came down off that hallway wall of Confederate forces and leaders mixed in an among countless other paintings and prints of the Army (and the other services) in action from the Revolutionary War through the current fight in Afghanistan. I must admit, there are in fact a large number of Civil War paintings, depicting both North and South. I can only assume one of the reasons there are so many is that we are barely 30 minutes from Gettysburg, home to many renowned artists, a few of whom have been commissioned by US Army War College classes of the past to capture some iconic scene of that conflict.
Finally, and with ironic timing, I also must tell you that I am in the midst of planning a more meaningful approach to the imagery and artwork that currently adorn the public areas on the three primary floors of The War College. There will be change: over the years very fine artwork has been hung with care – but little rationale or overall purpose. Just today, I left the “George S. Patton Jr. Room”, walked by the “Peyton March Room” and nearby hung a picture of a sharp fight in Iraq, 2003, right next to a Civil War print, which was near a series of prints honoring Army Engineers, and a few feet further hung a painting of the Battle of Cowpens. We can do better; we’d like our students, staff, and faculty to walk through a historical narrative that sends a message of service, valor, sacrifice, and courageous leadership at the strategic level.
But I will also approach our historical narrative with keen awareness and adherence to the seriousness of several things: accurate capture of US military history, good, bad and ugly; a Soldier’s life of selfless service to our Nation; and our collective solemn oath to defend the Constitution of the United States (not a person or a symbol, but a body of ideals). Those are the things I will be looking to reinforce with any changes to the artwork.
Best
Rob
RE: Removing Confederate Generals portraits? - J. Beckert - 12-19-2013 11:19 AM
To some people, "political correctness" isn't a meaningless buzzword - it's a cancer.
Perhaps Maj. Gen. Cucolo should pay a little more attention to what's going on in his post. This is directly from the article originally posted -
"During the inventory, an unidentified official — not the commandant, Maj. Gen. Anthony A. Cucolo III — asked the administration why the college honors two generals who fought against the United States, college spokeswoman Carol Kerr said.
“I do know at least one person has questioned why we would honor individuals who were enemies of the United States Army,” Ms. Kerr said. “There will be a dialogue when we develop the idea of what do we want the hallway to represent.”
RE: Removing Confederate Generals portraits? - Rob Wick - 12-19-2013 11:47 AM
They weren't enemies of the United States?
Best
Rob
RE: Removing Confederate Generals portraits? - Gene C - 12-19-2013 12:49 PM
Seems like it might have been a slow news day at the paper. An example of a news organization trying to create a story where there is none?
RE: Removing Confederate Generals portraits? - J. Beckert - 12-19-2013 12:58 PM
Yes, they were the enemy, but an enemy we've never seen before or since on such a level. They were formerly "us". They were defeated and became part of the Union again. Should we still harbor feelings of contempt 150 years later? These were Americans who served their country valiantly both before and after the Civil War. (See post below). They deserve more respect than to be purged (and that's obviously the case, from what was stated in the article) from our history.
RE: Removing Confederate Generals portraits? - BettyO - 12-19-2013 01:08 PM
Agreed, Joe.
Lee's father (although a debt-ridden gambler) was Light Horse Harry Lee - a signer of the Declaration of Independence. Lee was educated at West Point, achieved high marks there and served valiantly in the Mexican War. He was offered a commission in the US army at the start of hostilities, but declined due to the fact that he could not turn against his native state of Virginia.
Jackson was also West Point educated and likewise served with distinction in the Mexican War. He became an honored tutor/professor at VMI (known for his strict discipline in regards to study - he was nicknamed "Old Blue Light.") Jackson is noted as one of the best military strategists ever.
These men had much to make them emulated and loved. Enemy? Perhaps so to some - but they were also Americans. Southerners, first perhaps - but Americans just the same. And their track records were honorable, irregardless of what side they fought on in this major national "family feud."
RE: Removing Confederate Generals portraits? - L Verge - 12-19-2013 01:52 PM
Of course you know that I will agree with Joe and Betty because I find it absolutely ridiculous that there are still people who continue to harbor a personal vendetta against fellow countrymen who fought for what they believed in - and lost - 150 years ago.
Whether this line of thinking is followed by one individual or the mass media, it does nothing to help the current situation of trying to understand and move past historical hurts. Have you gone through diversity training? What about cultural change initiatives, enneagrams? I have spent hours in these sessions as part of my profession, and I have watched some harsh words be flung around - especially by some who think they are so smart, but end up sounding so stupid.
BTW: Is the Golden Rule considered p.c.? It seems to me that we functioned better when it was the code to live by.