Quote:It's 8:30 AM local time here in San Francisco. See, I learned my lesson, teacher.

Well done.

Quote:That's all you needed to say in order "to be as brief as possible." I now accuse you, as you did accuse me, of verbosity.

Guilty. Now tell me what grievous sin I've committed by believing in local community standards (remembering response #1).

Best
Rob

(12-16-2020 11:55 AM)Rob Wick Wrote:  Now tell me what grievous sin I've committed by believing in local community standards (remembering response #1).

Best
Rob

The "local community" that you are talking about are 11 members of the San Francisco Unified School District Renaming of Schools Panel appointed by the elected members of the San Francisco Board of Education.

The population of the "local community" of San Francisco in 2018 was 883,305. The 11 member "local community" Panel has decided (not the 883,305 San Francisco citizens plus net new citizens since 2018) that the commanding General of the successful American Revolutionary War, the first signer of the U. S. Constitution (which by its provisions implicitly permitted ownership of slaves by citizens), and the first President of the United States is no longer worthy of having a San Francisco high school named in his honor because he committed the "grievous sin" (to use your words) of owning slaves at the time the Constitution permitted him to do so.

According to the Brown Act, if the elected members of the San Francisco School Board now decide to follow the recommendations of this 11 member Panel, the rest of the "local community" of San Francisco, several hundred thousand citizens, have no say whatsoever in this decision. In essence, less than 20 citizens, are creating new "local community" standards with which I have some justifiable disagreement and as a citizen of San Francisco I am voicing that disagreement in a Letter to the Editor of a local newspaper, the Richmond Review, before a final decision is made. I believe it is the right of a "local community" citizen to disagree in this manner.

Look in your Constitution David. Their say comes in that thing we just had...you know, an election.

It's called representative government.

Quote:which by its provisions implicitly permitted ownership of slaves by citizens

Tell me again how this doesn't apply to Lee or Jackson?

Best
Rob

(12-16-2020 03:28 PM)Rob Wick Wrote:  

Quote:which by its provisions implicitly permitted ownership of slaves by citizens

Tell me again how this doesn't apply to Lee or Jackson?

Best
Rob

I don't think I told you the first time since I do not believe the Lee or Stonewall Jackson had schools in San Francisco named in their honor. Please inform me as to the source of your misinformation. Unlike Washington, Lee and Stonewall Jackson were generals in the American Civil War against the Union.

Nice attempt to sidestep David, but you know darn well what I'm talking about. How about answering the question honestly?

Best
Rob

(12-16-2020 09:09 PM)Rob Wick Wrote:  Nice attempt to sidestep David, but you know darn well what I'm talking about. How about answering the question honestly?

Best
Rob

Rob, what is the exact question that you believe I have "sidestepped" answering? I shall do my best to "answer the question honestly."

All this talk about sidestepping reminds me of a song.

Boot Scootin Boogie by Brooks an Dunn - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d05tQrhNMkA

Since all human beings have flaws- no one can meet the standards outlined as given it seems. Maybe the schools should simply be designated by numbers or letters.

Press Release: Letter to SFUSD from Alumni Associations Against Schools’ Name Changes

BY SAN FRANCISCO RICHMOND REVIEW ON OCTOBER 12, 2020 • ( 5 COMMENTS )
October 8, 2020

San Francisco Board of Education

555 Franklin Street

San Francisco, CA 94102

Dear President Sanchez, Commissioners, Superintendent Matthews,

We represent thousands of graduates from San Francisco’s public schools. Over the decades, we’ve given back by mentoring students, volunteering in school cleanups, and donating hundreds of thousands of dollars annually for scholarships and programs not funded by tax dollars. Our foremost objective has always been to help educate the next generation.

But we are concerned the district is undertaking a misguided and costly distraction by proposing to rename at least 45 elementary, middle and high schools. Yes, school names should reflect the community’s values, but the activities of your School Names Advisory Committee (committee) undermine the opportunity for a legitimate conversation about the appropriateness of the schools’ current names and, most critically, raises questions about how you are managing students’ educational needs.

School names have been changed in the past. But this committee is upending tradition and is employing an anti-historical bias. Its members have not consulted professional historians, representatives of the City’s richly diverse ethnic communities, or neighbors living and working adjacent to these schools.

This committee’s one-sided, embarrassing misreading of historical facts does not promote education or shared values. We need an inclusive process that will allow all communities to be heard, use professional historians applying verifiable data, issue a written report why a school name might be changed so the community can make a considered decision, and suspend the current process until everyone can safely return to school sites for the robust and thoughtful conversations you directed in the original Board resolution. Finally, in the midst of the District’s financial difficulties, we wonder where will the District find the estimated $9 million ($150-200,000 per school) needed to make these proposed name changes.

This November, citizens are voting for the school board. You are also asking San Francisco’s voters and the community at large to ratify your financial stewardship. It does not appear you are acting wisely with your foray into name changing and misapplying the public’s money.

COVID-19 has made education more difficult. It also has made it more challenging to have important and long overdue discussions about race and justice. What goes on inside the classroom has a greater impact on education than the name on the outside of a school building. Let’s focus on that and continue to work together to support our children’s education. We think these conversations need to happen and would like to meet with you.

Bill Mustanich, President, Abraham Lincoln High School Alumni Association

John Trasvina, President, Lowell High School Alumni Association

John Rothman, President, George Washington High School Alumni Association

Emily Sanchez Powell, President Emerita, Balboa High School Alumni Association

Charlene Mori, President, Galileo High School Alumni Association

SaveSchoolNames@gmail.com

Quote:Rob, what is the exact question that you believe I have "sidestepped" answering? I shall do my best to "answer the question honestly."

Well then, let me try again.

My whole point has been that a local community, through its elected representatives, has the right to determine, by applying what it believes to be local community standards, what that community's values are and who best represents those values. You dispute that the SFUSD board is doing that because it's relying on an outside panel to advise it (how that's wrong you have yet to provide a logical answer for) and that the panel is actually the power behind the throne. You argue that the community should honor people like Lincoln, Washington, Jefferson even though two of the three held slaves. You argue that their holding slaves was legal and constitutionally protected at the time. You believe that the panel's argument that Lincoln took the lives of 38 Dakota Indians should be countered by the fact that he spared the lives of hundreds of others.

So let me phrase my question another way. If someone in a San Francisco neighborhood wanted to name a school the "Robert E. Lee Memorial High School" should they have that right to do so and if not, why?

Best
Rob

(12-17-2020 10:28 AM)Rob Wick Wrote:  

Quote:Rob, what is the exact question that you believe I have "sidestepped" answering? I shall do my best to "answer the question honestly."

If someone in a San Francisco neighborhood wanted to name a school the "Robert E. Lee Memorial High School" should they have that right to do so and if not, why?

Best
Rob

A citizen of San Francisco should have the right to recommend to the San Francisco School Board that a San Francisco school be named "Robert E. Lee Memorial High School."

That was easy.

What then, if the board approved it?

Best
Rob

Then hell would freeze over, and the problem of global warming would be solved.

It's a win, win situation. -

(12-17-2020 12:28 PM)Rob Wick Wrote:  What then, if the board approved it?

Best
Rob

The individual School Board members would be answerable to the local community electorate in the next election if they make major mistakes in judgment. However, there may well be an established protocol for new school naming, possibly involving specific approval by local district constituents in some form, of which I am unaware.

The San Francisco School Board members seem to like the idea of doing whatever they want to do . . . shortly after they are elected . . . and without much Brown Act accountability to the public for their actions. Hence, the appointment of a Renaming of Schools Panel to recommend school name changes in conformity with Guiding Principles authorized by either the "blue ribbon" Panel themselves or the members of the School Board who appointed the Panel.

Democracy at work.

Quote:Then hell would freeze over, and the problem of global warming would be solved.

I didn't know conservatives believed in global warming, Gene. Welcome to the fight.

David,

I was a reporter and editor for over 14 years, and I am very well-versed in open meetings law. Given that we are still in the midst of an unprecedented pandemic, meetings have been moved to computer screens, but they are still required to follow a state's open meetings law.

You seem to believe that some secret cabal of un-elected officials (although properly appointed by the school board) are somehow in control of things and that just because people can't drone on ad nauseum at a meeting that their voice is somehow being silenced. I've covered enough public hearings to know that most people have no idea how to argue a point succinctly or keep from repeating themselves. A time limit on public comments is usually welcome.

In the end, it will be the elected board members who have to make the decision based on their panel's recommendation, their own point of view, and what they perceive to be the will of the public and the voters. And, in the words of a member of this forum:

Quote:The individual School Board members would be answerable to the local community electorate in the next election if they make major mistakes in judgment.

That, indeed, is democracy in action. That you may lose the fight doesn't make it any less valid.

Best
Rob