(09-25-2016 05:31 AM)John Fazio Wrote:  

(09-25-2016 03:36 AM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:  

(09-24-2016 10:22 AM)John Fazio Wrote:  

(09-24-2016 10:06 AM)Gene C Wrote:  

(09-24-2016 02:36 AM)John Fazio Wrote:  

(09-25-2016 05:31 AM)John Fazio Wrote:  

(09-25-2016 03:36 AM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:  

(09-24-2016 10:22 AM)John Fazio Wrote:  

(09-24-2016 10:06 AM)Gene C Wrote:  

(09-24-2016 01:04 PM)L Verge Wrote:  

(09-23-2016 10:26 PM)John Fazio Wrote:  

(09-23-2016 05:11 PM)L Verge Wrote:  

(09-23-2016 12:05 PM)John Fazio Wrote:  

I forgot what I was going to say

(09-25-2016 02:29 PM)RJNorton Wrote:  This thread is becoming hard to follow due to all the quoting, and re-quoting, and re-re-quoting...

Hopefully we can "trim back" a little to make the thread easier to follow.

Thank you to all.

I second this!!! (Well illustrated, Gene!)

(09-25-2016 03:46 PM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:  E.g. it could have been the Colonel felt a need to impress his wife with some heroic deeds. He wouldn't have been the first one, and not the first one in the Lincoln saga.

This is also my opinion. Some of the claims such as attending Cabinet meetings, special one-on-one meetings with individual Cabinet members, carrying (on horseback) vital messages from Lincoln to Union troops in Virginia, and a special private conference with Lincoln on assassination day seem IMO to more likely come from Coggeshall himself.

Thanks very much, Roger.

(09-25-2016 04:07 PM)RJNorton Wrote:  

(09-25-2016 03:46 PM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:  E.g. it could have been the Colonel felt a need to impress his wife with some heroic deeds. He wouldn't have been the first one, and not the first one in the Lincoln saga.

This is also my opinion. Some of the claims such as attending Cabinet meetings, special one-on-one meetings with individual Cabinet members, carrying (on horseback) vital messages from Lincoln to Union troops in Virginia, and a special private conference with Lincoln on assassination day seem IMO to more likely come from Coggeshall himself.

Wiki (no source though) reads: "He was a self-appointed bodyguard for Abraham Lincoln." So a self-appointed hero probably, too...

---

 His wife wrote as for the secrectiveness: “Mr. Coggeshall asked him [Lincoln] not to mention it [the assassination attempt] to anyone for he felt that God’s hand had been laid upon them in a miraculous manner, and they had been close to the Gate leading to the upper world and it was too solemn for the world to discuss.”
Would that have Abraham Lincoln's words at that point in time? "Gate leading to the upper world"? "Too solemn to discuss"?

To me, it does not sound like Lincoln at all, especially early in 1861. Saying something like this to a person he had just met simply does not "fit," IMO.

(09-26-2016 07:32 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  To me, it does not sound like Lincoln at all, especially early in 1861. Saying something like this to a person he had just met simply does not "fit," IMO.

Roger, et al.:

Here is a more comprehensive list of Coggeshall's writings, for whoever may wish to pursue this matter.

John


http://cpl.summon.serialssolutions.com/?...Coggeshall

(09-26-2016 09:55 AM)John Fazio Wrote:  

(09-26-2016 07:32 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  To me, it does not sound like Lincoln at all, especially early in 1861. Saying something like this to a person he had just met simply does not "fit," IMO.

Roger, et al.:

Here is a more comprehensive list of Coggeshall's writings, for whoever may wish to pursue this matter.

John


http://cpl.summon.serialssolutions.com/?#!/search?

ho=t&l=en&q=William%20T.%20Coggeshall

Only 34 have his name attached, and many of those are repeats on the same list. I think I'll pass.

However, I have been on leave for five days while my car was in the hospital (and Obamacare did not help one bit!). When I returned today, someone had left a copy of Freda's book on my desk. I noticed some things in the Intro page, but will share when I have more time to skim contents.

Was William Coggeshall related to Alexander Coggeshall of the114th USCT? Anyone know?

http://www.accessible-archives.com/2011/...-evidence/

There are quite a few citations for a twelve-volume series entitled Rebellion Record, A Diary of American Events, edited by Frank Moore in 1866 and reprinted in 1977 by the now-defunct Arno Press, as I skim through Freda Postle Koch's book on Col. Coggeshall. Has anyone run across this in any of their fields of research? Google lists it quite a few times, but I haven't found any text-related site on it.

One thing that I did pick up is that Moore makes reference to Lincoln's flight through Baltimore wearing a Scotch plaid hat and long cloak. We have all seen that caricature; is he the one that created it? I would also like to see if Moore quoted from Coggeshall's papers - or vice versa.

I did get a tad confused about Freda's lineage to Col. Coggeshall as described in the Intro to the book. I thought it more direct, but if I'm reading correctly, she interviewed a cousin, Ralph Busbey, who was a maternal grandson to Col. Coggeshall. Supposedly, Freda was the only one of her generation to know the stories, and Busbey was supposed to leave the Coggeshall papers to her upon his death. A footnote in the book makes reference to the papers being in the Ohio Historical Society at the time that the book was published (1985).

(09-28-2016 10:30 AM)L Verge Wrote:  A footnote in the book makes reference to the papers being in the Ohio Historical Society at the time that the book was published (1985).

Laurie, I wrote the Ohio Historical Society and received a nice response as follows:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Dear Mr. Norton,

Thank you for contacting the Ohio History Connection. Your inquiry was forwarded to our Library Services department. The William Turner Coggeshall papers, 1842-1868. MSS 115 is a small manuscript collection in our holdings. I have attached the finding aid to the collection to this email so that you may get a sense of its scope and content.

You are welcome to visit the Ohio History Connection Archives/Library to research our collections. We are located at 800 E. 17th Avenue, Columbus, OH 43211. The Archives/Library is open Wednesday through Saturday: 10-5. You can find our address, hours and more information on our website: http://www.ohiohistory.org/learn/archive...veslibrary

If you are unable to visit, you may consider hiring a private researcher. A list of people who are willing to do research can be found on our website:

http://www.ohiohistory.org/learn/archive...h-for-hire

We hope this information is helpful. Please let us know if you have any additional questions.

Sincerely, Tutti Jackson
Library Services
Ohio History Connection | 800 E. 17th Ave. Columbus, Ohio 43211

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Here is the file she sent.

Very nice response from Ms. Jackson, Roger. I also think that what she sent is about as far as we are going to get in determining the validity of Coggeshall's (or his descendants') claims regarding the ties to Lincoln. There is no mention in his papers evidently, so if the story is true (and I don't think it is), Coggeshall kept his promise of secrecy to Mr. Lincoln.

(09-28-2016 05:41 PM)L Verge Wrote:  Very nice response from Ms. Jackson, Roger. I also think that what she sent is about as far as we are going to get in determining the validity of Coggeshall's (or his descendants') claims regarding the ties to Lincoln. There is no mention in his papers evidently, so if the story is true (and I don't think it is), Coggeshall kept his promise of secrecy to Mr. Lincoln.

Maybe it's in "a Lincoln anecdote"...

(09-28-2016 05:41 PM)L Verge Wrote:  Very nice response from Ms. Jackson, Roger. I also think that what she sent is about as far as we are going to get in determining the validity of Coggeshall's (or his descendants') claims regarding the ties to Lincoln. There is no mention in his papers evidently, so if the story is true (and I don't think it is), Coggeshall kept his promise of secrecy to Mr. Lincoln.

Laurie:

The diaries of 1861, 1863 and 1865 may offer something. Likewise the Coggeshall material contained in other files in the library, per the list given. They are worth a look. I will be close to Columbus on October 4.

It is a difficult issue. It seems most improbable that there is no corroborating reference somewhere to Coggeshall's account re his relationship with Lincoln, but it seems equally improbable that he would fabricate the account out of whole cloth. His record and accomplishments would appear to preclude that. The theories offered to explain deliberate falsehood strike me as unconvincing.

John

John

(09-28-2016 07:24 PM)John Fazio Wrote:  Laurie:

The diaries of 1861, 1863 and 1865 may offer something. Likewise the Coggeshall material contained in other files in the library, per the list given. They are worth a look. I will be close to Columbus on October 4.

It is a difficult issue. It seems most improbable that there is no corroborating reference somewhere to Coggeshall's account re his relationship with Lincoln, but it seems equally improbable that he would fabricate the account out of whole cloth. His record and accomplishments would appear to preclude that. The theories offered to explain deliberate falsehood strike me as unconvincing.

John

John

Let us know what you find in Columbus. My concerns are that nothing seems to come from a primary source and that the hand grenade reference just does not match the technology of the time and that it appears to have happened in a vacuum with no other corroborating testimonies from anyone else on or near that train car or platform. Lincoln may have sworn Coggeshall to secrecy, but someone else would surely have reported such an event given the turmoil following Lincoln's election and in preparation for his trip to DC.