(08-08-2014 07:12 AM)LincolnMan Wrote:  40 years ago I walked into my mothers house in Detroit to find President Nixon on TV announcing his resignation. I was home on leave from the service. Sidebar: I had just purchased the four volume set: Battles and Leaders of the Civil War ( which I still own today). Where we're you all? What were you doing? Studying the Civil War then?

I was eating a buffalo steak dinner, grilled over a campfire up in the New Mexico mountains. I was in college and spent summers there as a backpacking guide. We only had a little radio with lousy reception to listen to his speech. The steak was tasty.

(04-27-2015 01:48 PM)Juan Marrero Wrote:  We don't need a national "stock villain" among presidents because that will be all that is taught in school: "Well, kids here is what you need to know for your test: Kennedy: good. Nixon: real bad."

I agree, especially on that almost no one is entirely bad.
Regarding hero status I do not entirely understand why Kennedy ranks that high in "greatest president" charts. He sure was a charismatic person, young, handsome, with a likewise glamourous wife - but politically, despite his handling of the Cuba crisis, what did he do that made him one of the greatest presidents? Or better - had he had the chance to live through his presidency, to what extent would he have fulfilled the many hopes people had pinned on him?

I am thinking of B. Obama's first election, which at least our news and newspapers put as if regarding the people's hopes comparable to Kennedy's, but meanwhile the public mood and opinion seem to have greatly "cooled down". I wonder if the same could have happened to Kennedy, and if his assassination perhaps prevented him from falling?

JFK's presidency was tragically truncated. No, I agree that he was not a great president even though he had the potential to be one. Knowing what I know now, I think his personal failings would have detonated his second term if Dallas had not happened and made him who he became in death. He had many gifts...a vibrant intelligence, physical courage, mental toughness, charm oozing from his pores. Few people realize that he spent more than two thirds of his life in gruesome physical pain. The fact that he accomplished what he did in only 46 years under the those circumstances seems miraculous.

But his dark side...sexual addiction, recklessness, hedonism...was very dark indeed. Seymour Hersh's "The Dark Side of Camelot" is one of the most shocking and depressing books I've ever read.

I think the exploration of space was a great thing, and the creation of the Alliance for Progress in Latin America was outstanding. The greatest thing to come out of his administration was the Peace Corps. I know people who served and each one of them mark it the highlight of their personal and professional lives. Americans were considered the Good Guys around the world then. Just pull up youtube clips of Jacqueline Kennedy's trips to Afghanistan and Pakistan in 1961-1962 to get an idea of what I am talking about...unbelievable!

I would not be telling the truth if I said I didn't wish I'd experienced the thousand days of his presidency. My mother and both grandmothers adored him. Mom later told me it was an innocent, exciting and exhilarating time to be young and to be an American. The sense of excitement and pride in Jack and Jackie and their gorgeous young family was infectious. The possibilities seemed endless.

We of course know more now, but I still feel kind of cheated just the same.

Thanks for your reply and providing me insight, Toia. His father's credo was: "It's not what you are, but what people think you are that is important"...

Frankly Joseph Patrick Kennedy Sr. was a monster, a bit of a charming sociopath. If you ever want to really understand why his sons turned out the way they did, study HIS life!

Rose was not an ideal mother, but Daddy did the real damage...

For the first couple of years following his assassination, President Kennedy started to achieve a martyr status which very much elevated his stature in the public eye for a while. I remember, that some people referred to him as one of our greatest presidents. This was during the period when the nation was mourning his loss and long before any of his sexual escapades became public knowledge.

Agreed,Nixon did do some positive things for the country.

President Kennedy was a marvellous example of the man meeting his moment. The country could luxuriate, just fifteen years after the end of WW II, in its supreme golbal status and who better to head it than a charismatic, eloquent young war hero with a beautiful wife. His Presidency left a mixed record. In the first year, the foreigh policy was a disaster--Berlin, the Vienna Summit, the Bay of Pigs. He got better. Domestically, he redeemed himself with a late speech on civil rights and introduced legislation that perhaps only LBJ could push through. As to his historical status, I am reminded of something Truman said (possibly a little wistfully): "heroes know when to die."

Juan....Harry Truman, as was usually the case, was RIGHT.

I would always ask my students,Do the times make the leader,or does the leader make the times?

(04-28-2015 07:43 AM)LincolnToddFan Wrote:  Juan....Harry Truman, as was usually the case, was RIGHT.

Another Truman remark seems appropriate to this thread, and please remember I'm quoting this from memory so it's likely a paraphrase.

When Kennedy was running for president, a reporter asked Truman whether Kennedy being Catholic caused him (Truman) any concern. Truman replied, "When it comes to young Kennedy, my concern ain't the Pope; it's the Pop!"

--Jim

Jim,

When I first read about that remark from Truman I howled...perfect!!

(04-28-2015 07:22 PM)LincolnToddFan Wrote:  Jim,

When I first read about that remark from Truman I howled...perfect!!

Truman had a knack for pithy sayings, many of which Roger won't allow me to quote, I'm sure. But they were funny and to the point.

When introduced to some of Mrs. Truman's friends, he used the word, "manure." After he left the room, some of the scandalized ladies asked Bess what she thought of the president using such language. She replied that it had taken her years to get President Truman to change to that more polite term.

He was a character, no doubt about it.

--Jim

Truman also that when you hear extra "Hosannahs" coming from the Sunday choir, go home and count the silverware.

He had a Mark Twain-like ability to cut through the hokum.

Truman was the strongest U.S.president in history so far[In my opinion].