US Military Posts named for Confederate generals

[Bill Richter]

I have never shoed one and indeed do not know if that is possible. They are known to be really mean

[LincolnMan]

That had to be a lot of money back then.

[Eva Elisabeth]

What were the camels used for and what advantage was expected?

[L Verge]

Why did I think that the idea of importing camels first came for use with the Pony Express? That service went out so quickly that the camels were never instituted.

Don't they also spit at you when they get perturbed?

[Eva Elisabeth]

They do, but it is not easy to get them pertubed. (It's difficult to make
them do anything.)

[Gene C]

They're just misunderstood.

[Bill Richter]

Camels were used as pack animals across desert areas of the Southwest. They had no relation to the Pony Express. The
latter was a scheme by Stephen A Douglas and Chicago rail interests (which included Abraham Lincoln who went to Council Bluffs across the Missouri River from Omaha, Neb, before the Civil War and called it the terminus of the new rail network) to prove that the central overland route could be used in winter. The winter cross plains travel did prove feasible even though the Pony Express broke the contract company Russell, Majors, and Waddell, noted freighters on the Great Plains. But RMW also lost a lot of equipment in the Mormon War of 1858 trying to supply the army that moved on Utah. By 1861, the telegraph and the secession of the South had killed off the Pony Express for fast mail delivery and the Southern route to California for rail service. This meant that the rails had to use the Central Route and it became home to the Union Pacific Railroad as it still is today. Illinois (remember where Lincoln was from?), Douglas, and the Chicago interests began building Chicago into the "Second City" next to New York City for American finance and trade to the West through a massive rail network. The Pacific Railroad was part of the Republican platform of 1860 and passed in 1862 and revised in 1864 and completed in 1867, work having been started during the Civil War.

[Eva Elisabeth]

Gene, I meant that in a positive way. They are too calm. And the female ones are rarely mean, they are pretty gentle. (Also I never experienced horses or mules horses have any problems with camels although they, indeed, smell. Dromedaries, the one-humped African camels, are still part of every day life in North African countries and of great value for the owning families, often portion of the bride's dowry).

[L Verge]

(06-02-2013 08:47 PM)william l. richter Wrote:  Camels were used as pack animals across desert areas of the Southwest. They had no relation to the Pony Express. The
latter was a scheme by Stephen A Douglas and Chicago rail interests (which included Abraham Lincoln who went to Council Bluffs across the Missouri River from Omaha, Neb, before the Civil War and called it the terminus of the new rail network) to prove that the central overland route could be used in winter. The winter cross plains travel did prove feasible even though the Pony Express broke the contract company Russell, Majors, and Waddell, noted freighters on the Great Plains. But RMW also lost a lot of equipment in the Mormon War of 1858 trying to supply the army that moved on Utah. By 1861, the telegraph and the secession of the South had killed off the Pony Express for fast mail delivery and the Southern route to California for rail service. This meant that the rails had to use the Central Route and it became home to the Union Pacific Railroad as it still is today. Illinois (remember where Lincoln was from?), Douglas, and the Chicago interests began building Chicago into the "Second City" next to New York City for American finance and trade to the West through a massive rail network. The Pacific Railroad was part of the Republican platform of 1860 and passed in 1862 and revised in 1864 and completed in 1867, work having been started during the Civil War.

As much as I am afraid to disagree with you, Bill, there is reference to an 1855 appropriation from Congress for $30,000 to be invested in camels for the Pony Express. I first learned of the camels and the Pony Express about thirty years ago in corresponding with the historian for the old Postmaster General's office. I just found it again online (and forgot to copy the address).

I was interested in the Pony Express way back when because so many authors were claiming that Isaac Surratt worked for the Express. He didn't.

[Gene C]

Maybe he worked for the Camel Express?

[JMadonna]

(06-03-2013 01:10 PM)L Verge Wrote:  I was interested in the Pony Express way back when because so many authors were claiming that Isaac Surratt worked for the Express. He didn't.

I heard he smoked Camels.

[Bill Richter]

Laurie,

I will not argue that camels did not carry the mail but they were not part of the pony express which specialized in rapid mail service written on light copy paper and delivered in a speedy trip across the great plains. This was an outfit under Russell, Majors, and Waddell. But then Congress never really knows where its money goes nowadays nor in the past. And those not in the know would be more prone to vote for pony express needs instead of camels. The real clincher is that the pony express last only a year or so around 1860, not 1855. Isaac Surrratt had a good chance to see camel mail because he rode between Santa Fe and El Paso, as I understand it. The problem he faced was delivery of the mail not speed and delivery.

Also in another thread everyone thinks that camels would not spook a horse or mule. True, if the horse or mule were raised with camels from birth. But you have not lived until you have seen a string of horses or mules go nuts over a blowing piece of paper or a gum wrapper. I knew one mule who would not cross a body of water (small stream or even a puddle) without throwing a fit

I used to shoe one animal that watched the mailman deliver each house as he came up the hill to where we were getting more and more nervous as the mail carrier approached. Finally when the mail came to a couple of houses away I had to pause until he started back down the hill again lest the horse pull his foot out of my lap with nails sticking out of it, slicing my apron and legs along the way.

Many westerners take a horse along when hunting because they will snort and get nervous when a deer or elk is around way before the hunter sees the game. As we farriers used to say, "It's the animal you trust who will injure you."

[L Verge]

Isaac Surratt never left Maryland until Inauguration Day in 1861, shortly before the demise of the Pony Express. So far as we can guess, he signed on with Benjamin Franklin Ficklin's express company.

There's another interesting dude in the sidelines. Many think that Ficklin was the creator of the Pony Express idea. Three others came up with the money and beat him out. They did make him manager at first, until he got angry with them and quit. This man would later own Jefferson's Monticello before choking on a fish bone.

[BettyO]

Camels also spit when angered. I have a friend whose boy friend had llamas. They are related to camels and one spit in a friend's face when she went up to pet it.....

Wild Bill is right they can be real mean! They also kick....

[HerbS]

They are nasty and tempermental also![San Diego Zoo Keepers Explanation of Camels].