Threaded Mode | Linear Mode

BettyO · 05-08-2013, 11:09 AM

Quote:And while they said Mosby had recently disbanded, essentially wasn't that his modus opperandi?

While the War was essentially over with Lee's surrender, there was still action being carried out in some places, wasn't there? Wouldn't Lincoln's assassination been considered a bit of a game changer? At least, if they didn't want devastating reparations for the South, wouldn't they want to try to clean up the mess and have some control over the fallout?

Mosby never DID surrender. He disbanded his command on April 21, 1865. He was still VERY MUCH in operation in January to late April 1865. Powell was dispatched from Mosby's unit apparently to work with Confederate Operatives/i.e. Booth. Supposedly Mosby was also working with Harney at that time as well. It does seem to be all tied together.

Laurie Verge · 05-08-2013, 12:27 PM

And again, please remember that Lee only surrendered his portion of the Confederate army. There were many more Southern soldiers under the command of Johnston, Kirby Smith, and others that were still fighting -- and a president of the Confederacy who was advocating guerrilla warfare before capitulation. How do we know for certain how a kidnap or assassination in early- to mid-April 1865, would affect the war effort?

Didn't Booth later write, "...our cause being almost lost, something decisive & great must be done."?
Couldn't Mosby, Harney and his handlers, and who knows how many others have had similar thoughts? Kidnapping or killing Lincoln or blowing up the White House qualifies as decisive and certainly "great" in the magnitude of what would happen in my mind.

John Stanton · 05-08-2013, 12:47 PM

It would take a momth to talk about Mosby's activities inthe spring of 1865. In the winter months, Mosby sent his Companies to various Counties in VA, to give the farmers who fed them, in the Fighten' months, some relief. In early '65 Mosby was ordered "to bring his Command, to him". He never knew how many would return. He called the Troops from the Northern Neck (the land between the Potomac and the Rappahannock) and they started west. Then got into a battle on March 17, in Mattox Creek - which also happened to be Sgt. Brogden's Spycamp,- with 4 US gunboats. There was no winner, but a Navy man got the Medal of Honor.(that's another story) Later, SEVERAL HUNDRED of Mosby's men passed through Falmouth, VA. This shows Mosby was strong enough, well equipt, and eager to fight - and it wasn't everybody he had. As an aside - one of Mosby's men was Thomas Benton Gayle I. My stepson is Thomas Benton Gayle V, (Straight line descent). Ps Mosby's Companies ran A to H. (Right?)

BettyO · 05-08-2013, 12:55 PM

John, you are right.

Mosby's companies ran from Company A (Powell belonged to Company B), with Willie Jett belonging to Company D (Referred to as "Company Darling") through to Company H....

John Stanton · 05-08-2013, 03:02 PM

Betty O, Post 1497 - that looks like the TOM JONES that thought he was a singer, a few years ago.

BettyO · (This post was last modified: 05-08-2013 07:04 PM by BettyO.)

Quote:...that looks like the TOM JONES that thought he was a singer, a few years ago.

"...It's Not Unusual.....!" Seriously, that photo really IS unusual!

L Verge · 05-08-2013, 07:24 PM

My first thought was that it was a stage character in a comedy.

BettyO · 05-08-2013, 07:28 PM

He DOES look like the standard vaudevillian comic actor, doesn't he?

Jim Garrett · 05-08-2013, 07:37 PM

OK Betty, you have to do the fancy schmancy superimpose one picture over the other until they fit.

BettyO · 05-08-2013, 07:43 PM

Jim -

If you're referring to the reference to Tom Jones the singer....I wouldn't want that old dude to take his shirt off and throw it at me! YUK!!! I'd run for the nearest exit - probably gagging! HA! Big Grin

DannyW · 05-08-2013, 10:30 PM

(05-08-2013 12:27 PM)Laurie Verge Wrote: And again, please remember that Lee only surrendered his portion of the Confederate army. There were many more Southern soldiers under the command of Johnston, Kirby Smith, and others that were still fighting -- and a president of the Confederacy who was advocating guerrilla warfare before capitulation. How do we know for certain how a kidnap or assassination in early- to mid-April 1865, would affect the war effort?

Didn't Booth later write, "...our cause being almost lost, something decisive & great must be done."?
Couldn't Mosby, Harney and his handlers, and who knows how many others have had similar thoughts? Kidnapping or killing Lincoln or blowing up the White House qualifies as decisive and certainly "great" in the magnitude of what would happen in my mind.

General Richard Taylor surrendered the last Confederate Army east of the MS River on May 4th. Also the town of Citronnelle Alabama where the surrender took place has an reinactment every May called the Surrender Oak Festival.

scldrgnfly · 05-08-2013, 11:53 PM

Getting back on task.

This is wonderful stuff y'all.

Ha! Ha! Now, I'll never think of Thomas A. without a smile!

John Stanton · 05-10-2013, 10:49 PM

(05-08-2013 08:21 AM)scldrgnfly Wrote: The article didn't appear right away on my phone. Oops! I guess I am wrong about Thomas A. Jones' death??? BUT to tell the truth, the picture there doesn't really look like the picture in Thomas A. Jones' memoirs does it? The picture in the memoirs, to me, looks like he was always a rather thin individual.

Cool article!

LOL, Betty!!! I love this!! The past really DOES look like,a different country!!! That is a GREAT find, Betty!!

And this discussion is GREAT, too!

Does anybody wonder about the fact that they kept Booth and Herold lingering in the "pine thicket" about a week and the x-Mosby/ Confederate dudes just happened to be about on the other side?? We already know how much "The Oath of Allegiance" meant to them. Meaning, Mosby's crew was always "skedadaling (sp.?)" weren't they?

Did they just not want Booth to be caught in Maryland? And to tell you truth, how smart would it really have been to have taken Lincoln towards Richmond with all of the Union troops and Generals on that side of the Potomac? Regardless of the fact of Richmond's "imminent" fall...which of course had become a fete a' complet, by the time JWB's crew had made their move.

Ha! Ha! They must not have had the Internet or the Surratt Society, ...or the RJ Norton Lincoln Symposium on their trail!!

scldrgnfly: I have looked into "what the dudes on the VA side of there river were doing, in this time frame." About 1 April, Richmond called some of their "Secret Line" agents to Richmond for a meeting. It is believed that the meeting was to brief the agents about the intended arrival of Lincoln, at the river. That meeting included Thomas Jones, Benjamin Grymes, Charles Cawood, and others. Jones came back quickly (His cover was that he went so as to collect back pay.) As for Grymes, I don't know where he was. Cawood stopped off in Manchester (Town across the James from Richmond) to visit with his recent bride. So when Jones signaled for help, there was no one there. Think about Jones' instructions when Booth did cross. Jones sent him to a "tree by a bridge", and hoped that someone would find him. If no one shows up, see Mrs Quesenberry - I THINK she can help.
Look at Herold's description on the crossing "We came out of the Nanjemoy at sundown, crossed within 300 yards of a gunboat, and landed on Mathias Point." If that is true, he landed at Cawood's Camp,- - - and there was no one there. He then went down around the Point and found Gambo Creek.

L Verge · 05-11-2013, 02:40 PM

If the kidnapping was still on and intended to happen very soon, why would all of the agents be MIA except Jones? Could the meeting have been to cancel the kidnapping?

John Stanton · (This post was last modified: 05-11-2013 10:25 PM by John Stanton.)

The adgena for that meeting is unknown, but by it's timing, it almost had to refer, at least,- to Lincoln. It might have been to alert the Agents to the Bombing of the White House, and the possibility of a bunch of agents running for their lives ... Orders were - HELP THEM. The need for "Passports" to cross the Potomac applied to everyone. (Kinsey Johns Stuart, REL's relation,was no exception. Sarah Slater coming down from Canada, for the St Albans Raiders was not excepted etc. etc.) So, if Harney came running, the spycamps could not help him - he needed the passport. Was the April Meeting called to change protocol???? I AM guessing, but I am aware of the rules, and these new new guys, didn't comply. Booth came to the river and didn't have a passport. Nobody helped. Jones had to dump him and hope for the best. Just a guess.

(05-11-2013 09:52 PM)John Stanton Wrote: The adgena for that meeting is unknown, but by it's timing, it almost had to refer, at least,- to Lincoln. It might have been to alert the Agents to the Bombing of the White House, and the possibility of a bunch of agents running for their lives ... Orders were - HELP THEM. The need for "Passports" to cross the Potomac applied to everyone. (Kinsey Johns Stuart, REL's relation,was no exception. Sarah Slater coming down from Canada, for the St Albans Raiders was not excepted etc. etc.) So, if Harney came running, the spycamps could not help him - he needed the passport. Was the April Meeting called to change protocol???? I AM guessing, but I am aware of the rules, and these new new guys, didn't comply. Booth came to the river and didn't have a passport. Nobody helped. Jones had to dump him and hope for the best. Just a guess.

continued. Still guessing, but there are solid facts to work with. When the early April meeting was concieved, the only "approved" plan was Harney's mission. Booth was off somewhere (I think - D,C.) If Jones really meant to collect his back-pay while he was there, the meeting topic must have been trivial. Jones went home MAD, because he didn't get paid. Cawood wasn't "pressed" to go back, so he took some R&R with Mama (Happy Mother's Day Mrs Lucy Johnson Macon Cawood). There is no way that they knew that Booth would come running and need help on a certain date. Whatever happened, Booth sat in the brambles for better than a week. I am wondering whether Booth KNEW to go to Dr. Stuart. (Jones never mentioned Stuart) was it - Harbin, and his ilk, that sent him there? Who knew that Stuart was part of the "Secret Line"? (That's enough - cool it)
Happy Mother's day to all the Mamas, everywhere.