Disease at the National?

[MaddieM]

(03-06-2013 06:57 PM)L Verge Wrote:  I read about the National Hotel disease years ago and asked my D.C. expert, Joan Chaconas, about it. She told me just about the same thing as Wiki does here. They never did find the cause, but modern people tend to believe it was caused by food contamination.

Did they have toilets as we know it? If not.... Where on earth did they 'go'?

[BettyO]

In a motel like the National - they would have chamber pots and slop jars....chamber pots either under the bed or in a "commode" (cabinet with a door) beside the bed....

[L Verge]

Your question intrigued me, Maddie, so I did a quick check on the history of plumbing. Does the Tremont Hotel in Boston still exist? Its architect, Isaiah Rogers, actually designed it to have indoor plumbing as early as 1829. It had eight "water closets" on the ground floor near the rear of the central court. There were also bathrooms (for bathing) in the basement with cold water pumped into tubs where it was then heated by small, side-arm, gas heaters.

In 1834, the same Mr Rogers worked his magic in New York City with his new Astor House. That hotel had 17 rooms with water closets and enough bathrooms to accommodate 300 guests.

It's late, but I'll try to track down some more info tomorrow. I suspect Betty's answer, however, applies to 90% of the establishments during the Civil War.

[RJNorton]

(03-08-2013 08:57 PM)MaddieM Wrote:  Did they have toilets as we know it? If not.... Where on earth did they 'go'?

Maddie, I was once curious about this regarding Ford's Theatre. If there were a capacity of c.1500-1700, and c.200(?) "had to go" at intermission, where did they go? So I wrote Ford's and received the following reply:

"Also, noted in the "National Park Service Historic Structure's Report" of Ford's Theatre (circa 1963), it does not give any indication that any indoor bathrooms/restrooms existed back then. What would have existed at that time just outside behind the theatre were small "outhouses."

[Jim Garrett]

(03-09-2013 04:56 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  

(03-08-2013 08:57 PM)MaddieM Wrote:  Did they have toilets as we know it? If not.... Where on earth did they 'go'?

Maddie, I was once curious about this regarding Ford's Theatre. If there were a capacity of c.1500-1700, and c.200(?) "had to go" at intermission, where did they go? So I wrote Ford's and received the following reply:

"Also, noted in the "National Park Service Historic Structure's Report" of Ford's Theatre (circa 1963), it does not give any indication that any indoor bathrooms/restrooms existed back then. What would have existed at that time just outside behind the theatre were small "outhouses."

Roger, you are on the right path. The Historic Structure Report does not address any plumbing. The copies of the florr plans (original draw by John T. Ford while in Old Capitol, does not illustrate any facilities. There was the covered alley between Fords and the Star Saloon, which led back to Baptist alley. The best guess is this was a convenient way to get back to privys in the alley for both Ford's and the Star Saloon.

[Rsmyth]

Jim, Don't the volunteers still have to use the alley?

[L Verge]

The alley or the outhouses might serve the gentlemen's needs, but there is no way in god's little green acres that an appropriately dressed lady of that period would have attempted it unless in dire emergency. Been there, done that in modern stalls and porta-johns. Too many layers and too many hoops without a struggle.

I did find mention of the Willard Hotel having running water and toilets in 1860 when the Japanese delegation arrived in town to begin their diplomatic offices with the U.S. for the first time. The delegates remarked about those facilities in their writings. Still working to find if Booth's haunts at the National Hotel had such niceties. I don't think it was as upscale as the Willard, but it wasn't a flop house by any means.

[J. Beckert]

The Restoration of Ford's Theater mentions "rest rooms" possibly being located on the second floor of the Star Saloon which adjoined Ford's via a doorway that entered behind the Dress Circle. I can't see a building as new as Ford's was being without someplace for the women, at least.

[L Verge]

Can't you just imagine the scene if Mrs. Lincoln had the call of nature and nowhere to go!?!

---

In searching for information on the National Hotel, I clicked on one of my favorite websites about the Streets of Washington: http://www.streetsofwashington.com/2009/...otel.html. No mention of toilet facilities, but interesting history.

Just realized that the whole page doesn't automatically show. Type in National Hotel in the Search bar to get the article.

[MaddieM]

(03-09-2013 06:34 PM)L Verge Wrote:  Can't you just imagine the scene if Mrs. Lincoln had the call of nature and nowhere to go!?!

---

In searching for information on the National Hotel, I clicked on one of my favorite websites about the Streets of Washington: http://www.streetsofwashington.com/2009/...otel.html. No mention of toilet facilities, but interesting history.

Just realized that the whole page doesn't automatically show. Type in National Hotel in the Search bar to get the article.

The dining room was renowned for its terrapin dinners and rare old wines. Ooooh lala... fat good that is when you're desperate to go. How did those women shift? It's bad enough wearing a long skirt and trying to sort that out without negotiating a crinoline! Did the woman just hike the crinoline over the pot and squat? I'm intrigued and I need to know. All this history and nothing of toilet matters.

[L Verge]

Maddie,

Imagine the crinoline with an over petticoat and then several layers of petticoats under the crinoline. To me, the worst was the pantalettes and those damned drawstrings. There is another version of pantalettes, but I haven't figured out those quite yet -- sounds like it should work, but I have no proof....

P.S. It wasn't much worse than panty hose in a hurry.

Sorry, my apologies to the gents for this risque conversation. Just be thankful that your ladies don't have to wear all that gear.

[MaddieM]

(03-10-2013 10:11 AM)L Verge Wrote:  Maddie,

Imagine the crinoline with an over petticoat and then several layers of petticoats under the crinoline. To me, the worst was the pantalettes and those damned drawstrings. There is another version of pantalettes, but I haven't figured out those quite yet -- sounds like it should work, but I have no proof....

P.S. It wasn't much worse than panty hose in a hurry.

Sorry, my apologies to the gents for this risque conversation. Just be thankful that your ladies don't have to wear all that gear.

You see, gentlemen always assume a lady is a creature of elegance and mystery where toilet matters are concerned.... if only they knew!!

No wonder men thought women had no bodily functions below the waist back in those days.... the truth was just too much for their delicate sensibilities and misconceptions....

[Jim Garrett]

(03-09-2013 03:57 PM)Rsmyth Wrote:  Jim, Don't the volunteers still have to use the alley?

The volunteers have the same resources available to us as the staff. In the springtime, Ford's is subject to large school groups that we usually direct them to use the alley.

[L Verge]

I remember thirty years or so ago when the female bathroom at Ford's was atrocious. It was pitifully small, had about three stalls, and the lines at intermission were so long that many ladies missed part of the next scene of the play. It was equally bad for our people on the Booth Escape Route Tours, who usually arrived at the theatre just as their morning coffees were kicking in.

Luckily, the facilities have been upgraded with the major restoration that went on a few years ago. I understand that a Senator's wife was stuck in line at one of the ancient stalls before the upgrade and the word went out that something had to be done.