Could John Have Spared Mary

[L Verge]

I was invited to the Red Carpet Gala at Ford's Theatre when The Conspirator movie premiered there (and yes, I shook Robert Redford's hand, and he complimented the work we do at Surratt House). I remember so well the reaction of the audience at the close of the film. Frederick Aiken walks across the yard of the Penitentiary after visiting John Surratt, Jr. The words scroll up on the screen about how John eventually went free. I heard gasps and rumblings, and even one high-pitched female voice, "Oh, my god, NO!"

Former Secretary of State Madeline Albright was two rows in front of me and was agitated as she moved up the aisle. I would have loved to have asked Attorney General Eric Holder his opinion on the movie and the John issue. I had watched him stoically march through the lobby with three body guards before they let us peons take our seats. My personal thought was that there was not one ounce of warmth in that long, tall man (but I digress).

It would have sure been interesting to discuss the whole military court issue, the sentences, etc. with him, however -- especially with the Gitmo situation. When Gitmo started to fill up, I received a call from someone in the Department of Justice asking how they could locate material on the 1865 Conspiracy Trial. Boy, did I feel like a hot shot then - the DOJ was calling Surratt House!!!

Those memories were brought back to me today when a visitor at the museum asked the question that many of us have asked for years: If John had returned, would his mother have been spared?

Please share your thoughts, and then I'll share mine.

[KLarson]

I believe that Mary would have received a shorter sentence, but that John might have been spared the noose, too. The jury could not have exonerated her of all guilt. But she would not have hanged. Since John was not, nor had he been for over a week and a half, in Washington, I think he would have been gound guilty of the general conspiracy, but not the assassination. He would have probably served a long sentence instead.

[John Stanton]

Mary would not have been released -she was GUILTY of something, and would be punished. Borrows was Guilty of holding a horse. She was not being held to trap John.. If he returned he would have been GUILTY too. If Mr "WOK" had his resturant in 1865, he would have been GUILTY too. In this same vein, why wasn't anyone from King George County -put on trial? (The list of names is too long to be shown here.)

[Gene C]

Having John in custody might have even made Mrs Surratt's conviction easier. Weichmann and Loyd's testimony was very damaging to her. Paine was arrested at her house, he had spent at least one night in her home, and she denied knowing him. Anything John says is only going to tie her closer to Booth and the southern government, because of John's activities and the couriers who stayed in her home.

[RJNorton]

My initial reaction is that she would have still hanged. Isn't John's overall situation similar to Arnold's and O'Laughlen's? They all dropped out after the failed kidnapping. Although I feel John may have pulled a fast one, and actually been in Washington on April 14, everyone says I am wrong. So wouldn't John get the same sentence Arnold and O'Laughlen did?

Mary, on the other hand, was doing Booth's bidding up to within hours of the assassination. Prior to Kate Larson's book I always thought Mary knew of the kidnapping plot but not the assassination. After Kate's book I began to think she may have even known more. Two people, Weichmann and Smoot, described her as very nervous and agitated after Booth departed the boardinghouse at 9:00 P.M. Certainly the brief discussion she had with Booth had an effect on her. We have even argued the possibility she may have been harboring Booth's pistols and hat. Did she know the president was about to be assassinated? It's possible. In my mind, at this point, she's more involved with Booth's plot than John was (assuming he's really in Elmira), and therefore it's my guess that John's return would not have changed Mary's death sentence.

[BettyO]

Good question -

John was definitely guilty - of at least spying for the Confederacy. He had also introduced Powell to Parr and subsequently to Booth. He was also involved in the initial kidnap plot.

Mary was just as guilty as John, I believe because she was "taking messages" for John when he wasn't home - as per Powell's one night stay at her house in February of 1865. Powell supposedly approached Mrs Surratt in the parlor and whispered something to her to which she agreed. She was also apparently cognizant of the kidnap plot. I therefore feel that Mrs Surratt although held in absence of her son John, would have still been convicted - if not hanged at least have received a lengthy prison sentence. She did no less than Arnold or O'Laughlen - and may have done more. She was definitely in collaboration with Booth; having run errands for him and such.

[Jim Garrett]

Agreement with Roger and Betty. I think if John had come back, it would have not changed Mary's fate. A.C. Richards felt that she was the #2 person in the conspiracy.

[RJNorton]

Jim's comment about Richards jarred my aging memory. Hopefully, somebody will know whether or not I am imagining this. But, years ago, I think I read that one of the Commission members (many years after the trial) said he felt Mary Surratt was the most guilty of all those who were tried. I do not recall what Commissioner it was or what his exact words were. Maybe it's a figment of my imagination. Has anyone ever heard of anything like this?

[Jim Garrett]

I think your memory serves you well Roger. I can't find the source right now but it's there.

The original letter that A.C.Richards wrote to Louis Weichmann dated June 2, 1898 is for sale through Nate Sanders of Los Angeles. It reads in part, "I cannot agree with you that next to Booth, John H. Surratt was the arch conspirator. I think Mrs. Surratt, next to Booth was the moving spirit."
$2500 OBO.

[J. Beckert]

Good question, Laurie. I think Mary would still be in quite a jam due to Weichmann and Lloyd's testimony. Her close involvement with Booth on the very day that the assassination occurred would be hard for her to side step. I was leaning toward a life sentence for her if Jr. was caught, but her involvement on the 14th. was poor timing on her part. Having Powell show up at her home made things worse for her. I think she may have still hung. I think Jr. would have hung with the rest of them. The other conspirators who gave statements would surely have put Jr. very deep in the same hole they were in.

[HerbS]

No,Slick Johnny knew if he went back-they both would have been hanged.I feel that he was in Elmira and Canandaigua,NY.I also have his signature from [The Canadian National Archives] in the ST.Lawrence Hotel Ledger in Montreal 3 days after the Assassination.I am "open"to the theory that someone else could have signed those ledgers.But,I did have his signature compared by 3 experts.

[Laurie Verge]

Roger, without checking, I want to say that the Commissioner who placed Mary in the center of the conspiracy was Gen. Thomas Maley Harris, who later wrote a book on the conspiracy.

[JMadonna]

If John had returned, would his mother have been spared?

Laurie, you know my feelings on the matter so my answer is no.
Mary knew the secret of the passes so she had to die. It would have made much better sense to give her a long prison sentence saving the government the onus of executing a woman AND keeping a bargaining chip for getting John to talk when captured.

But the truth is always what the government says it is, so they weren't interested in what John had to say.

[Gene C]

(10-26-2012 01:11 PM)JMadonna Wrote:  But the truth is always what the government says it is, so they weren't interested in what John had to say.

I sure am glad things are different today

[Craig Hipkins]

Laurie,
That is hard to say, but I believe that John would have taken some of the heat off of his mother. Besides Booth, John Surratt was the one conspirator that the government seemed to have wanted more than anyone else. Something tells me that Mary still would have been punished for her involvement, but she might have been spared the hangman's noose.

Craig