An "out-of-character" moment for Lincoln?

[J. Beckert]

I've heard that too, Bill. I think this is where I first read it.

http://www.everythinglincoln.com/articles/pets.html

[Bill Richter]

No wonder Mary chased Abe down the street with a butcher knife!

[LincolnMan]

Ah-ha! I knew I wasn't imagining it! Thank you for proving my sanity Now, I still wonder where the story originated from?

[LincolnMan]

(02-07-2013 10:19 AM)william l. richter Wrote:  No wonder Mary chased Abe down the street with a butcher knife!

"It takes two to tango!"

[wsanto]

Both the racoon story and the cobbler story seem to fit the ages of those involved and the sensibilities of the times they lived in. Both were probably very amusingly retold and embellished by Lincoln himself.

Even Lincoln did a few dumb things in his life--especially when viewed through a modern prism.

[LincolnMan]

Yes. To me they have the "ring of truth" to them. Lincoln, was for a boy of his era, very normal in that regard, I'm sure.

[Liz Rosenthal]

I'm not sure what I think about the story of the abused wife, although I recall Richard N. Current writing in The Lincoln Nobody Knows that he was a little disturbed by the "officiousness" of Lincoln's alleged conduct.

However, I'm very skeptical of the dog/raccoon story. I first read it in Herndon's Lincoln, and Michael Burlingame relies on it to contend that Lincoln killed his father's dog as some sort of retribution.

Lincoln was of his time, but that only went so far. Let's not forget that, as a youth, he wrote an essay against animal abuse. He was also known, as a boy, for admonishing his companions not to hurt turtles and arguing that the ant's life is as precious to itself as is a person's life to the person. Also, there are loads of stories about Lincoln's love for animals, both wild and domesticated, and his acts of kindness toward them.

Now it's possible that the claimed incident with the raccoon and the dog occurred before Lincoln had his let's-be-kind-to-animals epiphany. But, if that's so, then I still can't imagine him telling a story on himself (because Herndon remembered this as a story told by Lincoln) in which he participated in two cruel acts - killing a raccoon for nothing and then causing the death of a dog by dressing it up in the raccoon's skin so that it was attractive to predators - when Lincoln, at least as an older boy and man, had very strong feelings against cruelty. If I were him, I'd be ashamed to tell a story in any kind of jovial way that made light of my own cruelty when the cruelty is something I now abhor.

[L Verge]

I know nothing about the story, but the dog must have been rather small because even large raccoons are not that big that their skin could be wrapped around a dog of any size.

[LincolnMan]

So the story is found with Herndon? That was the "missin piece" for me. The dog/raccoon story certainly seems to be polar opposite of the Lincoln story regarding saving the turtle from the abuse by the boys placing hot coals on its shells. Yet, human nature is such that we sometimes do behave against our own grain, at times. Best to remain skeptical- like so many of the Lincoln stories that have been passed down through the years.

[Mike B.]

(02-07-2013 09:00 AM)LincolnMan Wrote:  I remember it from somewhere. Anyone know about it?

That story is from Dennis Hanks who is notoriously unreliable. Herndon called the man a "terrific liar." It may have been Johnston, Lincoln's step-brother if true, though it seems like an old frontier tall tale.

Lincoln did actually write a story as a young boy arguing against "cruelty to animals." He later said as a 7 0r 8 year old boy, he shot a bird for food that landed near his half-face camp in IN and then never shot another living thing again.

[LincolnMan]

Yes, I doubt the story to be true. Imagine how cruel that act would have been towards the lowly animal.

[RJNorton]

I think I mentioned this story many months ago, but in a different context. I think it shows Lincoln's honesty with himself. Sure, saving an animal was wonderful for the animal, but was that really the prime motive? Was the most pressing motive actually so the person takes a pain out of their own mind? I think Lincoln's honesty in this regard is what strikes me the most.

I have no idea of the veracity or source of this story. Maybe it happened; maybe it didn't. It certainly could be apocryphal. But the story's source is Abraham Lincoln's Stories and Speeches by J. B. McClure.

"An amusing incident occurred in connection with 'riding the circuit,' which gives a pleasant glimpse into the good lawyer's heart. He was riding by a deep slough, in which, to his exceeding pain, he saw a pig struggling, and with such faint efforts that it was evident that he could not extricate himself from the mud. Mr. Lincoln looked at the pig and the mud which enveloped him, and then looked at some new clothes with which he had but a short time before enveloped himself. Deciding against the claims of the pig, he rode on, but he could not get rid of the vision of the poor brute, and, at last, after riding two miles, he turned back, determined to rescue the animal at the expense of his new clothes. Arrived at the spot, he tied his horse, and coolly went to work to build of old rails a passage to the bottom of the hole. Descending on these rails, he seized the pig and dragged him out, but not without serious damage to the clothes he wore. Washing his hands in the nearest brook, and wiping them on on the grass, he mounted his gig and rode along. He then fell to examining the motive that sent him back to the release of the pig. At the first thought, it seemed to be pure benevolence, but, at length, he came to the conclusion that it was selfishness, for he certainly went to the pig's relief in order (as he said to the friend to whom he related the incident) to "take a pain out of his mind." This is certainly a new view of the nature of sympathy, and one which it will be well for the casuist to examine."

[LincolnMan]

Roger, I'm like you-not sure it was true-probably not. Think about it for a second: Lincoln was wearing new clothing-which for him in those days must have been expensive. He then rode on past the pig two miles. Two miles is a long way in those days-on horseback. Then it is said he turned around and rode back the two miles to rescue the creature. I have my doubts!

[RJNorton]

(03-17-2013 06:06 AM)LincolnMan Wrote:  I have my doubts!

Agreed!!

[LincolnMan]

I was re-reading the posts on this thread thinking about "out of character" incidents with Lincoln. My mind went to the scene in the movie LINCOLN where he slaps Robert. Is there ANY historical basis for the depiction? I don't ever remember reading anywhere any account of Lincoln acting out physically in anger like that.