Extra Credit Questions

[Eva Elisabeth]

Before I guess his midwife - do you mean the first American, US embassador, US president...?

[L Verge]

I mean first person; a hint, however, would be in the realm of US President.

[Eva Elisabeth]

I think Presidents Fillmore and Pierce began trading with Japan, so one of their consuls?

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(As for presidents I'd guess Grant, I believe he was in Japan)

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Re: "...the first person to be allowed the privilege of shaking hands with the Emperor of Japan" - is there a taboo regarding this? I.e. never anyone was allowed to shake hands with him before? This is a serious question as I am always interested in traditions of other people and cultures!

[RJNorton]

Bill Clinton?

[L Verge]

According to my source (a story on Mt. MacGregor, the cottage where Grant died), Eva has guessed correctly; it was former President U.S. Grant during his 30-month trip around the world with Julia and Jesse. I have no idea what the pre-20th century customs in various countries - especially the Orient - entailed.

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(09-24-2015 02:38 PM)L Verge Wrote:  According to my source (a story on Mt. MacGregor, the cottage where Grant died), Eva has guessed correctly; it was former President U.S. Grant during his 30-month trip around the world with Julia and Jesse. I have no idea what the pre-20th century customs in various countries - especially the Orient - entailed.

Perhaps this has something to do with the custom of not touching the emperor: Quote from Wiki - This "Restoration Shintōist Movement" began with Motoori Norinaga in the 18th century. Motoori Norinaga, and later Hirata Atsutane, based their research on the Kojiki and other classic Shintō texts which teach the superiority of the Sun Goddess Amaterasu. This formed the basis for State Shintōism, as the Japanese emperor claimed direct descent from Amaterasu. The emperor himself was therefore sacred, and all proclamations of the emperor had thus a religious significance.

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(09-24-2015 02:38 PM)L Verge Wrote:  According to my source (a story on Mt. MacGregor, the cottage where Grant died), Eva has guessed correctly; it was former President U.S. Grant during his 30-month trip around the world with Julia and Jesse. I have no idea what the pre-20th century customs in various countries - especially the Orient - entailed.

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(09-24-2015 02:38 PM)L Verge Wrote:  According to my source (a story on Mt. MacGregor, the cottage where Grant died), Eva has guessed correctly; it was former President U.S. Grant during his 30-month trip around the world with Julia and Jesse. I have no idea what the pre-20th century customs in various countries - especially the Orient - entailed.

Perhaps this has something to do with the custom of not touching the emperor: Quote from Wiki - This "Restoration Shintōist Movement" began with Motoori Norinaga in the 18th century. Motoori Norinaga, and later Hirata Atsutane, based their research on the Kojiki and other classic Shintō texts which teach the superiority of the Sun Goddess Amaterasu. This formed the basis for State Shintōism, as the Japanese emperor claimed direct descent from Amaterasu. The emperor himself was therefore sacred, and all proclamations of the emperor had thus a religious significance.

Another interesting piece on Grant in what I read mentioned his addiction to smoking cigars (over 20 a day). Evidently, he was not much of a smoker until his victory at Ft.. Donelson and his being hailed a hero. A picture was published that showed him smoking a cigar, and grateful northerners sent him over 10,000 boxes of cigars to guarantee future victories. Of course, he got future victories, but his addition led to cancer of the throat and tongue, which caused his death.

His body lay in state for three days in NYC, and hundreds of thousands of mourners passed by his casket. Three Presidents of the U.S. attended his funeral (Cleveland, Hayes, and Arthur) and 40,000 troops marched in the funeral procession, including 18,000 Civil War veterans. Navy ships in the Hudson River fired their guns in salute.

[Eva Elisabeth]

Thanks for clarifying, Laurie - wow, what an honor for U. Grant!!! (Speaking of handshaking-taboos, didn't Mrs. Obama undergo a faux pas in this regard when meeting the Queen?)

Here's a follow-up question to the follow-up question. One president addressed the Emperor of Japan in a letter as follows (quite casually IMO):

"Great and Good Friend:
...
Wishing abundant prosperity and length of years to the great State over which you preside, I pray God to have Your Majesty always in His safe and holy keeping.

Written at the City of Washington... Your Good Friend,???"

Who was the Tennõ's good friend?

[Anita]

Abraham Lincoln .

[Eva Elisabeth]

Brilliant, Anita, here's the entire letter:
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/l/lincoln/linc...w=fulltext
(...and background information in the fascinating book "The Global Lincoln".)

Anita, you win a dinner in a Japanese restaurant.

[Anita]

Love Japanese food. Thanks Eva.

PS I thought it was an awkwardly worded letter unlike Lincoln's writing.

[RJNorton]

(09-25-2015 08:23 PM)Anita Wrote:  Love Japanese food. Thanks Eva.

PS I thought it was an awkwardly worded letter unlike Lincoln's writing.

Enjoy, Anita!

For some reason I was reminded of this letter:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

To the King of Siam


February 3, 1862

Abraham Lincoln,

President of the United States of America.

To His Majesty Somdetch Phra Paramendr Maha Mongut,

King of Siam,

&c., &c.

Great and Good Friend: I have received Your Majesty's two letters of the date of February 14th., 1861.

I have also received in good condition the royal gifts which accompanied those letters,---namely, a sword of costly materials and exquisite workmanship; a photographic likeness of Your Majesty and of Your Majesty's beloved daughter; and also two elephants' tusks of length and magnitude such as indicate that they could have belonged only to an animal which was a native of Siam.

Your Majesty's letters show an understanding that our laws forbid the President from receiving these rich presents as personal treasures. They are therefore accepted in accordance with Your Majesty's desire as tokens of your good will and friendship for the American People. Congress being now in session at this capital, I have had great pleasure in making known to them this manifestation of Your Majesty's munificence and kind consideration.

Under their directions the gifts will be placed among the archives of the Government, where they will remain perpetually as tokens of mutual esteem and pacific dispositions more honorable to both nations than any trophies of conquest could be.

I appreciate most highly Your Majesty's tender of good offices in forwarding to this Government a stock from which a supply of elephants might be raised on our own soil. This Government would not hesitate to avail itself of so generous an offer if the object were one which could be made practically useful in the present condition of the United States.

Our political jurisdiction, however, does not reach a latitude so low as to favor the multiplication of the elephant, and steam on land, as well as on water, has been our best and most efficient agent of transportation in internal commerce.

I shall have occasion at no distant day to transmit to Your Majesty some token of indication of the high sense which this Government entertains of Your Majesty's friendship.

Meantime, wishing for Your Majesty a long and happy life, and for the generous and emulous People of Siam the highest possible prosperity, I commend both to the blessing of Almighty God. Your Good Friend, ABRAHAM LINCOLN.

Washington, February 3, 1862.

By the President:

WILLIAM H. SEWARD, Secretary of State.

[Eva Elisabeth]

Tad was sure disappointed, he would have loved the elephants.

[Anita]

I think the US government came out ahead in this gift exchange!!!!


"In May 1856 a commercial agreement between the United States and Siam known as the Harris Treaty was signed and later ratified by the United States Senate. As a way of further cementing their relations, James Buchanan, then President of the United States, sent King Mongkut a gift comprising 192 books of US government publications. These arrived in 1860, a presidential election year.

Mongkut responded to this gift by sending a sword in a gold scabbard inlaid with silver, a daguerreotype portrait of himself with the future King Chulalongkorn, and a pair of elephant tusks as presents for the American president." http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/4434...civil-war/

[Eva Elisabeth]

I should leave this Xmassy photo for the trivia Advent calendar, but the German version of Mark Twain's wisdom is "Never put off til tomorrow what you can do today" (rather than the day after tomorrow: "Was du heute kannst besorgen/ das verschiebe nicht auf morgen".)

So - where is this?
   

[Rogerm]

For some reason, to me that resembles the interior of the Frederick Douglass House near Washington, D.C. But, I am probably wrong.

[Eva Elisabeth]

This is an outstanding guess, Roger, but it is/was indeed not Frederick Douglass' dining room!