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Lindsey · 09-26-2012, 12:58 PM

(09-08-2012 05:06 AM)Jim Garrett Wrote: Some interesting commonalities between AL and JFK. I believe that both men were completely stripped down (which makes sense for a complete examination and both were eseentially just wrapped up in the sheets they died in and placed in a coffin. JFK's was however the best available from the local Dallas funeral home, and paid for by Jackie's secret service agent Clint Hill. I hope he was re-imbursed. Both men's suits have become iconic relic, however JFK's suit will not be available for display until 2062.

I hope I live long enough to see it!

BettyO · (This post was last modified: 09-26-2012 01:13 PM by BettyO.)

I'll be somewhere over the rainbow when they finally let that one out..... I KNOW I won't be around..... not unless I live to be 113!!! Angel

Rob Wick · 09-26-2012, 01:45 PM

I'll be 101, so I doubt I'll make it either.

Best
Rob

RJNorton · 09-26-2012, 02:20 PM

Take bee caps like Pauline "Grandma" Hueston. You both might make it.

ReignetteC · (This post was last modified: 11-30-2012 09:46 PM by ReignetteC.)

Thanks for a very stimulating post. As a tenured employee of Brooks Brothers, the iconic American clothier of presidents (including Mr. Lincoln), I am especially curious about the history of the "shirt bosom." Thus I quickly checked our archives and found a reference to the shirt bosom in a pamphlet Brooks Brothers published in 1905 called “Clothes and the Hour.”

I P.M.
White shirts made of long-cloth with linen bosoms, or all solid linen, cuffs either round or square corners, two stud holes, ready made or to measure. Open front and, for those who like them (and they are many), cut coat wise, to open all the way down the front, to be put on like a coat.Theoretically all shirts are supposed to be made with collars and cuffs attached. Practically most of them are made with cuffs attached, and with collars separate.

On another note, Brooks Brothers published the pamphlet “Chronicles:1818-1909: Being a Record of Sundry Happenings.” It describes a gentleman’s dress during the early 1860s. I trust you’ll find it to be of interest.

“At that time a man's occupation could almost be told by his dress, for professional characteristics were still very noticeable. The clergymen of all denominations wore black "dress" coats with much white neckerchief folded around their high standing collars. The successful lawyer dressed after the style familiar to us in portraits of Daniel Webster, blue coat with brass buttons, Nankeen waistcoat and trousers, and an amply frilled shirt front. The doctors dressed plainly, but always in black, and carried, almost invariably, the professional gold-headed cane. Merchants and bankers wore the skinned coats of brown, blue or black which were to develop during the next decade into the frock-coat of today.

“The high silk hat was the almost universal wear. Shaven faces were the rule and a beard the exception, while the mustache was the sign of the gambler or" Sporting man."

Jim Page · 12-01-2012, 01:00 AM

(11-30-2012 09:45 PM)ReignetteC Wrote: Thanks for a very stimulating post. As a tenured employee of Brooks Brothers, the iconic American clothier of presidents (including Mr. Lincoln), I am especially curious about the history of the "shirt bosom."

Very interesting post about a very interesting company. When I moved to the DC area, I was happy to live where there was a Brooks Brothers store; it was my first stop after laying in a supply of groceries!

--Jim

ReignetteC · 12-02-2012, 11:53 AM

(12-01-2012 01:00 AM)Jim Page Wrote:
(11-30-2012 09:45 PM)ReignetteC Wrote: Thanks for a very stimulating post. As a tenured employee of Brooks Brothers, the iconic American clothier of presidents (including Mr. Lincoln), I am especially curious about the history of the "shirt bosom."

Very interesting post about a very interesting company. When I moved to the DC area, I was happy to live where there was a Brooks Brothers store; it was my first stop after laying in a supply of groceries!

--Jim

Jim,

When you're in NYC, check out the beautiful building on the corner of Broadway and Grand Streets (a Duane-Reade drugstore occupies the first floor). It was the Brooks Brothers store during the Civil War. Mary LIncoln stopped by in 1861.

- Reg

Jim Garrett · 12-02-2012, 01:03 PM

(11-30-2012 09:45 PM)ReignetteC Wrote: Thanks for a very stimulating post. As a tenured employee of Brooks Brothers, the iconic American clothier of presidents (including Mr. Lincoln), I am especially curious about the history of the "shirt bosom." Thus I quickly checked our archives and found a reference to the shirt bosom in a pamphlet Brooks Brothers published in 1905 called “Clothes and the Hour.”

I P.M.
White shirts made of long-cloth with linen bosoms, or all solid linen, cuffs either round or square corners, two stud holes, ready made or to measure. Open front and, for those who like them (and they are many), cut coat wise, to open all the way down the front, to be put on like a coat.Theoretically all shirts are supposed to be made with collars and cuffs attached. Practically most of them are made with cuffs attached, and with collars separate.

On another note, Brooks Brothers published the pamphlet “Chronicles:1818-1909: Being a Record of Sundry Happenings.” It describes a gentleman’s dress during the early 1860s. I trust you’ll find it to be of interest.

“At that time a man's occupation could almost be told by his dress, for professional characteristics were still very noticeable. The clergymen of all denominations wore black "dress" coats with much white neckerchief folded around their high standing collars. The successful lawyer dressed after the style familiar to us in portraits of Daniel Webster, blue coat with brass buttons, Nankeen waistcoat and trousers, and an amply frilled shirt front. The doctors dressed plainly, but always in black, and carried, almost invariably, the professional gold-headed cane. Merchants and bankers wore the skinned coats of brown, blue or black which were to develop during the next decade into the frock-coat of today.

“The high silk hat was the almost universal wear. Shaven faces were the rule and a beard the exception, while the mustache was the sign of the gambler or" Sporting man."

I'm sure you already know about the customer made Brooks Bros. overcoat with the lining embroidered with a giant American eagle with the motto, "One Country One Destiny".

Mark MacKenzie · (This post was last modified: 12-02-2012 03:58 PM by Mark MacKenzie.)

I believe the cane Lincoln carried that night is now at the Lincoln Museum at Lincoln Memorial University in Harrogate, TN. Its a great museum aided by the benevolent donation of $500,000 by Col. Sanders of Ky. Fried Chicken.

Its a beautiful ornate cane either ivory or silver handled, I forget which.

Laurie, may I suggest a fresh sprig of mint for your Jack and Ginger?

ReignetteC · 12-02-2012, 04:32 PM

(12-02-2012 01:03 PM)Jim Garrett Wrote:
(11-30-2012 09:45 PM)ReignetteC Wrote: Thanks for a very stimulating post. As a tenured employee of Brooks Brothers, the iconic American clothier of presidents (including Mr. Lincoln), I am especially curious about the history of the "shirt bosom." Thus I quickly checked our archives and found a reference to the shirt bosom in a pamphlet Brooks Brothers published in 1905 called “Clothes and the Hour.”

I P.M.
White shirts made of long-cloth with linen bosoms, or all solid linen, cuffs either round or square corners, two stud holes, ready made or to measure. Open front and, for those who like them (and they are many), cut coat wise, to open all the way down the front, to be put on like a coat.Theoretically all shirts are supposed to be made with collars and cuffs attached. Practically most of them are made with cuffs attached, and with collars separate.

On another note, Brooks Brothers published the pamphlet “Chronicles:1818-1909: Being a Record of Sundry Happenings.” It describes a gentleman’s dress during the early 1860s. I trust you’ll find it to be of interest.

“At that time a man's occupation could almost be told by his dress, for professional characteristics were still very noticeable. The clergymen of all denominations wore black "dress" coats with much white neckerchief folded around their high standing collars. The successful lawyer dressed after the style familiar to us in portraits of Daniel Webster, blue coat with brass buttons, Nankeen waistcoat and trousers, and an amply frilled shirt front. The doctors dressed plainly, but always in black, and carried, almost invariably, the professional gold-headed cane. Merchants and bankers wore the skinned coats of brown, blue or black which were to develop during the next decade into the frock-coat of today.

“The high silk hat was the almost universal wear. Shaven faces were the rule and a beard the exception, while the mustache was the sign of the gambler or" Sporting man."

I'm sure you already know about the customer made Brooks Bros. overcoat with the lining embroidered with a giant American eagle with the motto, "One Country One Destiny".

You bet I do! I've been researching "the world's most expensive overcoat" for several years. I am writing a book about the coat and expect to publish it next year.

Jim Garrett · 12-02-2012, 04:46 PM

(12-02-2012 04:32 PM)ReignetteC Wrote:
(12-02-2012 01:03 PM)Jim Garrett Wrote:
(11-30-2012 09:45 PM)ReignetteC Wrote: Thanks for a very stimulating post. As a tenured employee of Brooks Brothers, the iconic American clothier of presidents (including Mr. Lincoln), I am especially curious about the history of the "shirt bosom." Thus I quickly checked our archives and found a reference to the shirt bosom in a pamphlet Brooks Brothers published in 1905 called “Clothes and the Hour.”

I P.M.
White shirts made of long-cloth with linen bosoms, or all solid linen, cuffs either round or square corners, two stud holes, ready made or to measure. Open front and, for those who like them (and they are many), cut coat wise, to open all the way down the front, to be put on like a coat.Theoretically all shirts are supposed to be made with collars and cuffs attached. Practically most of them are made with cuffs attached, and with collars separate.

On another note, Brooks Brothers published the pamphlet “Chronicles:1818-1909: Being a Record of Sundry Happenings.” It describes a gentleman’s dress during the early 1860s. I trust you’ll find it to be of interest.

“At that time a man's occupation could almost be told by his dress, for professional characteristics were still very noticeable. The clergymen of all denominations wore black "dress" coats with much white neckerchief folded around their high standing collars. The successful lawyer dressed after the style familiar to us in portraits of Daniel Webster, blue coat with brass buttons, Nankeen waistcoat and trousers, and an amply frilled shirt front. The doctors dressed plainly, but always in black, and carried, almost invariably, the professional gold-headed cane. Merchants and bankers wore the skinned coats of brown, blue or black which were to develop during the next decade into the frock-coat of today.

“The high silk hat was the almost universal wear. Shaven faces were the rule and a beard the exception, while the mustache was the sign of the gambler or" Sporting man."

I'm sure you already know about the customer made Brooks Bros. overcoat with the lining embroidered with a giant American eagle with the motto, "One Country One Destiny".

You bet I do! I've been researching "the world's most expensive overcoat" for several years. I am writing a book about the coat and expect to publish it next year.

I look forward to seeing it.

L Verge · 12-02-2012, 06:25 PM

Mark - There hasn't been a bartender yet who has added a sprig of mint to my Jack and Ginger, but it sounds like a nice addition. Some of the bartenders I've met probably don't know what mint is except for a little "pill" that you pop in your mouth to cover bad breath!

Reignette - Welcome aboard the USS Norton! You are in good company here, and trust me, we will bleed you for every ounce of history you can feed us...

ReignetteC · 12-02-2012, 09:04 PM

Dear Ms. Verge,

Thank you for your warm welcome!

I should also like to thank the staff at the Barnum Museum (CT) as it is they who indirectly pointed me to this symposium. Here's how I found the "USS Norton":

A staff member of at the Barnum Museum suggested that I contact Jim Garrett with regard to a question I had about P.T. So I googled Jim's name. The first hit was the "Lincoln DIscussion Symposium." I clicked the link and started to read the commentary.

I quickly recognized the name, Roger Norton. Could this be THE Mr. Norton who created The Abraham Lincoln Research Site? Wow! What a find!

I saw your posts, too, Ms. Verge, and had a good laugh when you described the group of tourists who made a quick stop at the Surratt House, looked at its history on a iPad, and then entered the museum to use the bathroom. Sadly, I think that happens at a lot of "interesting" places.

Also, I have read some glowing references about you and the Surrratt House (Ed Steers's books quickly come to mind.)

It was obvious that I was among giants, and I wanted to walk beside them. So I joined the symposium.

My "Lincoln Library" is vast - about 430 volumes - but far from complete. Nineteenth century books and newspapers are some of my favorite sources. Additionally, I have a "One Country, One Destiny" library of books, newspapers, and ephemera relative to the coat Mr. Lincoln wore on the fateful night of April 14, 1865.

I am so glad that I found this site, and I very much look forward to learning (and sharing) among the giants.

Sincerely,
Reignette

J. Beckert · 12-02-2012, 09:34 PM

(12-02-2012 09:04 PM)ReignetteC Wrote: I quickly recognized the name, Roger Norton. Could this be THE Mr. Norton who created The Abraham Lincoln Research Site? Wow! What a find!

Sincerely,
Reignette

See that, Roger? You're a legend, a gentleman AND "the politest man on the internet".

Laurie Verge · 12-03-2012, 09:26 AM

Amen - a gentleman and a scholar in the same degree as those that I claim as mentors: Hall, Brennan, Keesler, Steers, Alford, Ownsbey, and Hanchett.

Reignette - I am now going to pick your brain. For the last decade, we have heard one doctor in particular promote his theory that Lincoln suffered from Marfan's Syndrome. As I understand it, one of the characteristics of this condition is unusually long extremities on the victims.

We know that Mr. Lincoln was taller than most men of his day; however, using the measurements for his clothing purchased at Brooks Brothers as a basis, is there any indication that his arms and legs were disproportionately long for his body? I hope that makes sense...