Lincoln and religion

[Craig Hipkins]

I guess that it is possible that he never really had time to give it much thought considering what was going on in the United States at that time. Interesting to speculate though!

Craig

[LincolnMan]

Craig: Lincoln may have known about it. He was very much interested in science, in "cause and effect,"-in how things worked. He read a lot. Evolution wasn't a new idea with Darwin. I think it wouldn't be something "out in left field" to say that Lincoln probably would have been inclined to believe it-if he actually was exposed to it.

[My Name Is Kate]

I'm not sure how well evolutionary theory would jive with predeterminism.

One thing I could never understand about evolutionary theory is...where are all the fossils and living species that are clearly in a state of being between something they once were, and something they are evolving toward? For example, where are all the rabbits that are developing fangs and claws to aid in their survival? Few animals have more enemies than rabbits, and they don't have much more than speed, keen senses, and their ability to reproduce quickly, as defenses.

[LincolnMan]

I agree with you. I would think they have an answer for that. There is that bird/dinosaur fossil that they cite as evidence of the transition.

[Gene C]

(02-25-2013 08:08 PM)My Name Is Kate Wrote:  One thing I could never understand about evolutionary theory is...

There's alot about evolutionary theory that I don't understand.
It's a theory with a lot of holes.

[My Name Is Kate]

Yet there are quite a few "fossils" and skeletons of Neanderthals and ape-like humanoids, but precious few of anything else...

And the dinosaurs bother me. I don't know how they fit into the grand scheme of things.

[LincolnMan]

Most would say the evolution on a micro-level is a fact. The macro-level evolution is more problematic, I suppose. I am not an evolutionary scientist! There are those who call themselves "theistic-evolutionists." They believe in a Creator who set evolution in motion. In my mind, I could see Lincoln tending to believe this way.

[LincolnMan]

Apparently General McClellan believed in evolution-he called Lincoln the "original gorilla!"

[Mike B.]

I believe Lincoln made comments about the age of Niagra Falls and was a fan of Volney's "Ruins" that he believed the earth was quite old and did not accept the literal 6 days of creation of the earth in Genesis. The scientific consensus now is the earth is around 4.5-4.6 billion years old.

As far as Predestination and evolution there is a wonderful exchange here from the late Stephen Jay Gould and another professor on this. In the Rocky Mountains one part of a mountain fell down leaving a very good record of evolution over millions of years.

http://www.stephenjaygould.org/library/n...brian.html

Gould believes that if one re-ran the tape as it were and ran it forward evolution would have been totally different and the fossils in the shale would have went different ways and we would not exist.

Simon Conway Morris says the opposite. He says that the conditions of life and the earth would have made evolution follow partiular lines, such as the idea that the evolution of the eye through natural selection would follow a particular pattern because it is the efficent organ necessary with the light of the sun.

As far as dinos are concerned they existed for millions of years and were most likely wiped out by commets as they disappear from the geological record at about 65 million years ago.

[LincolnMan]

Nice post Mike-informative!

[RJNorton]

Mike is probably too shy to mention he authored a book titled "Lincoln's Christianity." I know I have mentioned "100 Essential Lincoln Books" before, but I don't think I mentioned "Lincoln's Christianity." Kudos, Mike!

[RJNorton]

Was Abraham Lincoln ever baptized? Yesterday I was reading a 1999 article Ed Steers wrote about Lincoln and faith in North & South magazine. Ed mentions that stories of Lincoln's alleged secret baptism emerged during the 20th century.

Ed discusses four stories that have circulated concerning Lincoln's alleged baptism. The first one appeared in 1942. In this story a minister of the Disciples of Christ (Brethren) whose name was John O'Kane told of secretly baptizing Lincoln in a creek near Springfield. This account appeared in the "Christian Evangelist" in 1942. The second account appeared in a small book written by Reverend Freeman Ankrum and was published in 1947. In this account Lincoln was baptized by a member of the German Baptist Church commonly known as the "Drunkards." In the third account, which appeared in a book in 1956, a minister, who was a member of the Church of Brethren, came to Springfield from Indiana at night and the baptism was secretly carried out in the Sangamon River. The fourth and final account appeared in Mariah Vance's Lincoln's Unknown Private Life. Vance was the Lincolns' housekeeper. The account is similar to the 3rd story only the baptism was allegedly carried out by the Reverend David Elkins. As with the other accounts, the baptism allegedly took place between Lincoln's election in November 1860 and departure for Washington in February 1861. Since Elkins died in 1857 we know this account is false, and historians generally discount all of these stories.

Ed concludes that the "baptism of Abraham Lincoln is one of those apocryphal stories that persists in Lincoln lore. It never happened."

[ELCore]

(03-16-2013 09:19 AM)Mike B. Wrote:  I believe Lincoln made comments about the age of Niagra Falls and was a fan of Volney's "Ruins" that he believed the earth was quite old and did not accept the literal 6 days of creation of the earth in Genesis....

It is possible, maybe even probable, but by no means certain, that Lincoln read Volney. According to Robert Bray in his Reading With Lincoln, p. 57, we have only the word of one man, Abner Y. Ellis, that Lincoln had read Volney, and Ellis's testimony is a recollection of events of a quarter-century earlier. Thus, we have no idea, I think, whether Lincoln was a "fan" of Volney.

Here are the pertinent parts of Lincoln's ruminations on Niagara Falls, which Basler dates to Sep. 1848:

Quote:.... The geologist will demonstrate that the plunge, or fall, was once at Lake Ontario, and has worn it's way back to it's present position; he will ascertain how fast it is wearing now, and so get a basis for determining how long it has been wearing back from Lake Ontario, and finally demonstrate by it that this world is at least fourteen thousand years old.... When Columbus first sought this continent -- when Christ suffered on the cross -- when Moses led Israel through the Red-Sea -- nay, even, when Adam first came from the hand of his Maker -- then as now, Niagara was roaring here....

Collected Works, Volume II, page 10.

I once read a brief description of Lincoln's personality; I wish that I could remember where. Anyway, it went something like this: "He had the head of a scientist, but the heart of a poet." I think the fragment on Niagara Falls demonstrates that duality quite clearly.

[LincolnMan]

(03-17-2013 12:25 PM)RJNorton Wrote:  Was Abraham Lincoln ever baptized? Yesterday I was reading a 1999 article Ed Steers wrote about Lincoln and faith in North & South magazine. Ed mentions that stories of Lincoln's alleged secret baptism emerged during the 20th century.

Ed discusses four stories that have circulated concerning Lincoln's alleged baptism. The first one appeared in 1942. In this story a minister of the Disciples of Christ (Brethren) whose name was John O'Kane told of secretly baptizing Lincoln in a creek near Springfield. This account appeared in the "Christian Evangelist" in 1942. The second account appeared in a small book written by Reverend Freeman Ankrum and was published in 1947. In this account Lincoln was baptized by a member of the German Baptist Church commonly known as the "Drunkards." In the third account, which appeared in a book in 1956, a minister, who was a member of the Church of Brethren, came to Springfield from Indiana at night and the baptism was secretly carried out in the Sangamon River. The fourth and final account appeared in Mariah Vance's Lincoln's Unknown Private Life. Vance was the Lincolns' housekeeper. The account is similar to the 3rd story only the baptism was allegedly carried out by the Reverend David Elkins. As with the other accounts, the baptism allegedly took place between Lincoln's election in November 1860 and departure for Washington in February 1861. Since Elkins died in 1857 we know this account is false, and historians generally discount all of these stories.

Ed concludes that the "baptism of Abraham Lincoln is one of those apocryphal stories that persists in Lincoln lore. It never happened."

Roger: is it "drunkards" or "dunkards?" I don't think the Baptist denomination baptizes infants/babies.

[RJNorton]

Good morning, Bill. Thanks for being alert to my typo. It is definitely Dunkards! My bad!