The hole In the door

[LincolnMan]

(11-12-2015 11:29 AM)maharba Wrote:  Assuming that the president's box occupants had noticed an hour, before, some motion or maybe a visitor putting his head in and retreating. I would have told myself, that must have been Security that is Parker, and then I would have felt more at ease in knowing that. Did JWBooth absolutely know who all was in the box? Had a friend or a confederate told Booth just who was in that box? Not including Grant and soldiers, not also a strong personal bodyguard of Lincoln? In scouting out the live theater, was Booth able to view into the box and see just who was in there? Booth did his homework and planning very well, including a novel escape method. Men with guns would not have/did not shoot at the fleeing actor, unsure if that wasn't just a part of the play. It was bold of Booth to go in there with just a one-shot pistol and a knife. If I was now about to open that door and enter, several ideas would have played through my mind. I AM John Wilkes Booth, and if somehow necessary I could at the very last second "talk my way in and through" any unforeseen event. "Hello President Lincoln, I just want to say what a pleasure to have you here, etc." Then with everyone disarmed and charmed by Booth's presence, quickly decide what to do next.

I had never given consideration to what Booth might have done if for some reason once inside the box he had to change his plan. Fascinating!

[Eva Elisabeth]

(11-12-2015 10:32 AM)jonathan Wrote:  Yeah Laurie, that's exactly what I meant. I haven't read the argument that Booth made a dry run an hour earlier, but the thought of it brings some obvious questions immediately to mind. Why would he have done that? What is the benefit? He knew the theater. He had been there that afternoon so he likely knew the setup of the box. If he had entered the box at 9:30, wouldn't many people have seen him and reported that in the aftermath??

Again, putting myself in his place, I have no real need for a dry run. I'm intimately familiar with the theater, I've been there in the afternoon so I know the set up, I've got my hole in the door to peek in just before I do the deed. That's all I need really. Why go through the trouble of entering the box twice and drawing extra attention to myself? As far as Clara's statement, it sounds like she's saying that Booth actually opened the door and either stuck his head in or stepped inside, looked around and then left. If that was the case, surely someone else in the box would have noticed that. Although Mary was too distraught to think straight, it seems like Rathbone would have recalled this at some point and verified Clara's story.

---

It's a very curious statement from Clara though. What reason could she possibly have for saying that if it didn't happen?? Would it be she was just mis-remembering? Could it be someone else opened the door to look in and after the assassination she got confused about who it was? Was she just embellishing? At what point was that statement made? Was it in the immediate aftermath, or years later, or at the trial? Did she even testify at the trial?

I agree with you, Jonathan, Roger, and Laurie - it makes the most sense to me JWB bore the hole but I am suspicious about Clara Harris' statement.

The statement was published in the NYHerald two days after the assassination and reads:
"Nearly one hour before the commission of the deed the assassin came to the door of the box, and looked in to take a survey of the position of its occupants. It was supposed at the time that it was either a mistake or the exercise of an impertinent curiosity. The circumstance attracted no particular attention at the time."
She didn't testify at the trial, I believe Henry's testifying was considered to be sufficient.

(However, re.: "...wouldn't many people have seen him and reported that in the aftermath?" - Yes, and? Anyway he could be sure to be identified (and for sure wanted to be so), so what would this have mattered to him? Still I, like you, tend to doubt the dry run.)

As for Clara Harris, I find it strange that she didn't accompany and care for her bleeding, fainting fiancee when he was carried away (to her father's home!).

[jonathan]

Well my point was that if he did a dry run at 9:30, how could he possibly have done so without being seen by many people? And if he was seen by many people, surely at least some of those people would have reported it in the aftermath of the assassination. So, if he did a dry run, where are those reports? In the dry run scenario, I agree that he wouldn't have cared about being recognized, but I think he would be concerned about drawing attention that might foil his ultimate goal.

[Eva Elisabeth]

(11-12-2015 06:31 PM)jonathan Wrote:  So, if he did a dry run, where are those reports?

Got your point now - yes, that's a valid one! (Sorry!)

[John Fazio]

Laurie, Jonathan, Roger, Eva, Lincoln Man, et al:

Responses to commentary:

Clara had to have made her statement on the 14th or 15th, inasmuch as it appeared in the New York Herald on the 16th and in Noah Brooks's Dispatch of the 16th. It was made, therefore, when her memory was at its freshest. Because it is not contradicted by anyone, the burden of proving it untrue is on anyone asserting that it is untrue. If the burden is not carried, the statement must stand as true. Omissions do not constitute contradiction, however puzzling they may be, and cannot, therefore, be said to be proof. I am sorry to be legalistic, but that is the law.

Forbes is said not to have mentioned seeing Booth twice. To my knowledge, he did not mention seeing him even once! I know of no statement by Forbes re the assassination until his Affidavit of 1892, in which he claimed to have been in the box with the presidential party, an absurdity, and in which he makes no mention whatsoever of Booth, though we know he confronted him in front of the outer door.

No one in the audience mentioned seeing the intruder. He is clearly said to have been quick and unobtrusive. He looked in to take a survey, i.e. he did little more than have a peek and then withdrew. For this reason, we may be certain that almost no one noticed him; eyes, after all, were turned toward the stage, though there is a possibility that the peek-in took place during an intermission, in which case much of the audience was gone and, in any case, gone or not, few, if any, would have paid the least attention to it.

Why the dry run? The reasons are given on p. 162 of Decapitating.

Why would Clara say she saw someone peek in if she didn't? An excellent question. The answer is: she wouldn't.

Perhaps she was confused about who it was. But she said, plainly, that "Upon his (the assassin) entering the box again..." Furthermore, the only other person it could have been was Hanscomb. The four reasons for holding that it was not Hanscomb are given on p. 163 of Decapitating. It could not have been Forbes or Parker, because she knew both men and knew what they looked like.

Thank you.

John

[RJNorton]

Hi John. Are there not multiple witnesses who said John Wilkes Booth handed a card (or something) to Forbes prior to entering the box immediately prior to the assassination? If this be true, and it was indeed Booth's second visit to the box, why would he need to hand anything to Forbes the second time? Wouldn't he have given Forbes his card the first time?

Thank you.

[John Fazio]

(11-13-2015 06:33 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  Hi John. Are there not multiple witnesses who said John Wilkes Booth handed a card (or something) to Forbes prior to entering the box immediately prior to the assassination? If this be true, and it was indeed Booth's second visit to the box, why would he need to hand anything to Forbes the second time? Wouldn't he have given Forbes his card the first time?

Thank you.

Roger:

..."To know all that, prior to his strike, he would have to make a dry run if he could. So he waited for an opportunity, i.e., a moment when there was no one outside the outer door, or when Forbes was distracted or otherwise not paying sufficient attention, or when Forbes was with Parker and Burke at Taltavul's, i.e., during an intermission. In any case, when the opportunity came, he took it." (p. 162, Decapitating.

John

[jonathan]

I can see how doing a dry run during an intermission would make it less likely he would be noticed by those outside the box. People milling around, chatting, gone next door for a drink, that kind of thing. He would likely just blend in with the crowd. But wouldn't it make it much more likely that he would be noticed by everyone in the box? The four are in the box, it's intermission so none of them are looking at the stage, they're likely having some casual chit chat…and someone opens the door and looks in. Seems to me that those facing in that general direction would immediately notice, stop conversation, and look up at him. This would lead the others to wonder what it was and do the same. Booth then closes the door and goes back to his other business, while the four in the box quickly and casually discuss what that was all about before going back to what they were talking about prior to the interruption. And if one of them happened to recognize Booth, they might even discuss him for a minute (Oh I saw him in such and such a play a couple of years ago, etc.) before continuing. If that had been the case, it just seems to me that one of the others surely would have mentioned it at some point. Although I suppose it's possible they did mention it, only in conversation with friends and not in any kind of official statement or testimony. And maybe Rathbone or Mary did contradict Clara, but also in private conversation rather than during any kind of official questioning. I wonder if anyone asked Clara about this, asked her to elaborate. I wonder if anyone ever asked Rathbone or Mary about it. I'm far from convinced, but I see the argument. I'd be curious to know the timing of the intermissions.

[maharba]

Yes, he had not painted himself into a corner yet, not until he pulled the trigger of the derringer. If Rathbone had a gun and had wounded Booth. His setup was perfect for the tools at hand, though. Lincoln had been a strong man and with long arms, but that advantage was negated with a single bullet to the back of his head. It might have saved his life, if Lincoln at that moment began rocking in his rocking chair. Even that high point of the play was not sufficient to engage Lincoln in a brief episode, and move his chair.

[John Fazio]

(11-13-2015 08:38 AM)jonathan Wrote:  I can see how doing a dry run during an intermission would make it less likely he would be noticed by those outside the box. People milling around, chatting, gone next door for a drink, that kind of thing. He would likely just blend in with the crowd. But wouldn't it make it much more likely that he would be noticed by everyone in the box? The four are in the box, it's intermission so none of them are looking at the stage, they're likely having some casual chit chat…and someone opens the door and looks in. Seems to me that those facing in that general direction would immediately notice, stop conversation, and look up at him. This would lead the others to wonder what it was and do the same. Booth then closes the door and goes back to his other business, while the four in the box quickly and casually discuss what that was all about before going back to what they were talking about prior to the interruption. And if one of them happened to recognize Booth, they might even discuss him for a minute (Oh I saw him in such and such a play a couple of years ago, etc.) before continuing. If that had been the case, it just seems to me that one of the others surely would have mentioned it at some point. Although I suppose it's possible they did mention it, only in conversation with friends and not in any kind of official statement or testimony. And maybe Rathbone or Mary did contradict Clara, but also in private conversation rather than during any kind of official questioning. I wonder if anyone asked Clara about this, asked her to elaborate. I wonder if anyone ever asked Rathbone or Mary about it. I'm far from convinced, but I see the argument. I'd be curious to know the timing of the intermissions.

Jonathan:

I said a peek-in during an intermissionwas a possibility; I did not say it was probable. I believe the greater likelihood is that it occurred during the performance rather than during an intermission. It was so perfunctory, I do not believe anyone saw it but Clara. If anyone in the audience saw it, they would have thought it was merely a service call of some kind, certainly nothing that had a sinister purpose.

In an odd way, the fact that Clara dropped reference to the intrusion in her second statement, given very soon afterward before Judge Olin, lends greater credibility to the account. It is easier to accept that she initially recorded what she saw, when her memory was fresh and there was no apparent reason to falsify, and later omitted reference to it as a way of protecting her fiance's image and reputation from an imputation of negligence in protecting the President, than to accept that she made up the initial account out of whole cloth for no apparent reason.

John

[jonathan]

Yeah, okay, so I see the arguments for the dry run. I see the possibility for most of what you're saying, whether or not I believe it actually happened. But the one hurdle that I struggle with the most is how Booth could have avoided being noticed by theater goers. I think it's common knowledge that there many people who went to the play specifically to see Lincoln. We've all read the accounts of people watching the box, trying to get a glimpse of him. And we've read the accounts some of those people gave of Booth making his way to and entering the box just before the assassination. I just have a hard time seeing how none of those people noticed Booth during a dry run. I have to believe that somebody would have said "The same guy was there an hour earlier too". With probably a fair number of people keeping a regular watch on the box, how could Booth have possibly entered unnoticed? Even if he was quick about it.

[L Verge]

I still think that Clara confused the visit from Hanscombe, the journalist, as Booth doing a dry run. What she went through that night would be enough to jumble anyone's brain. How accurate the report in the newspaper was is up for debate also.

We need Tom Bogar to tell us where intermissions were written into the script. We also need to follow Booth's timeline. Betty, wasn't he meeting with Powell, Herold, and Atzerodt about 8 pm? What time was he in the saloon? Wasn't it shortly after 9:30?

People at the theatre put him there and climbing the steps at 10:10 pm. Several acquaintances reported that they saw him making his way to the box, but that he did not acknowledge their presence. Two army officers, whose chairs were blocking the aisle to the box, said he glared at them as they moved their chairs. Charles Forbes did not report Booth passing twice.

I think the idea of him casing the joint between the Lincolns' arrival about 8:30 and his path to the box at 10:10 is stretching the situation.