Did the educated class really speak so well in the 19th century?

[Juan Marrero]

Whenever, I read quotes from people from the 19th century, I am struck by how elegantly they spoke. Certainly, the writing (especially of letters) rises to a level of eloquence not usually seen today. I was struck by this when reading "Fortune's Fool" and noticed that, even in angry ripostes, JWB's quotes were uniformly well stated. On the other hand, 18th century letters and quotations seem somewhat stilted by comparison. Did the American English language peak in the 1860s? Perhaps, it is just a matter of taste. Or more likely that only the best examples are still remembered from times past.

[LincolnToddFan]

Hi Juan,

Yes I think so. I've recently read the Civil War diaries and letters of George Templeton Strong, Mary Chestnut, Varina Davis, Fanny Seward and Mary Todd Lincoln to name only a few. They wrote beautiful, elegantly constructed sentences that are a joy to read.

Even a perusal of the writings of "common" people who were not necessarily lettered or famous is a wonderful experience for those of us who appreciate words.

It's so different from today, it's almost as if we are speaking a different language than they did.

[Juan Marrero]

Yes, even the small throwaway utterances have class. Lincoln's: "she will think nothing of it", so much better than, "she won't care."

And the sense of occasion: "Now he belongs to the ages [angels]", not "Let's get airborne".

LincolnToddFan, I agree that MTL was a fine writer. Herdon was no slack either. His "little engine that knows no rest" (paraphrase) is a gem.

A book I read about TR said he was a good writer but missed being a great one, noting that his work "would have double the strength at half the length." That cannot be said of Lincoln.

JFK's Inaugural is thrilling, but one senses that it was written to thrill. Lincoln's writings at their best had the magic of something naturally beautiful that could not be improved with gilding. No forced grandeur.

It would be interesting to compare Grant and Lincoln as writers. Military v. Legal writing.

[Eva Elisabeth]

One point is that language became simpler and shorter. I think modern media and also such as advertising strategies have added to this. The message is to come over directly. Short is concise and aggressive, thus more effective. Plus people today are more concerned about time efficiency, and convenience. LOL.

It's the same in German. And in arts. Compare a Constable painting to a Miro, a Verdi opera to a pop song. And in clothing - hoop skirts are gorgeous and make beautiful ladies, but quite inconvenient in modern everyday life.
       
Another point is that each generation (of youth) wants to speak their own language to distinct from the parents. Some of this makes its way into the adult language of this generation. Maybe one generation will re-discover the "oldfashioned, forgotten" language. And the opera partly revives in movie sound tracks.

Still IMO quite a lot of people are capable of expressing themselves beautifully, and I have enjoyed several examples on the forum.

[HerbS]

The language and handwriting are superior to today's sloppy effort!

[Juan Marrero]

EvaElizabeth, those are all excellent points. Convenience over courtesy is(comparatively)one of the the hallmarks of our times.

And, frankly, the opposite too has its drawbacks. Some years ago I was in Seoul for business and decided to come home a day early. When I went to the airline office that was in the hotel, the agent was very evasive as to whether I could make my change. It slowly dawned on me that to say "no" would be to "lose face" and I had not picked up his clues that there simply were no seats available. It sort of reminds me of Lincoln writing that he regretted the necessity of saying that he had no daughters. A little circumlocution but beautifully said.

[LincolnToddFan]

[JFK's Inaugural is thrilling, but one senses that it was written to thrill]// quote

Juan you are 100% right. It was written to inspire or "thrill," and that's exactly what it did. It's one of the most famous and quoted of Inaugural Addresses.

The problem is that it is said to be mostly the work of Theodore Sorensen, JFK's main speechwriter.

That's what I admire and respect about Lincoln. Unlike our modern day presidents, he wrote all his own speeches.

[Eva Elisabeth]

(05-08-2015 08:26 PM)LincolnToddFan Wrote:  That's what I admire and respect about Lincoln. Unlike our modern day presidents, he wrote all his own speeches.

That's an excellent point, Toia. And I prefer a simpler speech to a ghostwritten one.

[LincolnToddFan]

So do I Eva!

[Eva Elisabeth]

(05-07-2015 01:40 PM)Juan Marrero Wrote:  Yes, even the small throwaway utterances have class. Lincoln's: "she will think nothing of it" so much better than, "she won't care."

One of my favorites is Queen Victoria's "we are not amused".

[LincolnToddFan]

I am fascinated by Czarist/Imperial Russia. I have just as many books on that period in history as I have on Lincoln and the Civil War.

One of my books is an anthology of love letters between Tsar Nicholas II and his wife Alexandra who were of course the last Emperor and Empress. They spoke and wrote to one another primarily in English, not Russian or German or French as one would expect. Believe me when I tell you that their use of the English language puts many of our most lettered academics(even 19th century ones) to complete shame. They could make the most archaic phrases and words sound so intimate that I blush reading them!