Who is this person?

[Eva Elisabeth]

Cool Seward-avatar!

[RJNorton]

In talking about Mary Lincoln what lady said this?

"It was an outstanding characteristic of Mary Todd Lincoln that she wanted what she wanted when she wanted it and no substitute!

[Eva Elisabeth]

Julia Taft said at least something similar when Mary wanted her (Julia's) mother's unique, fashy ribbon for a bonnet.

[RJNorton]

Kudos, Eva! That is correct!!

You win one free visit to the fort on the White House roof built by Tad and Willie (and visited by Julia and her brothers).

[Eva Elisabeth]

Great!!!

[RJNorton]

What is this man's name? He is connected to Abraham Lincoln in some way.

[Eva Elisabeth]

Somehow the eyes remind me of Lincoln's stepmother, so wild guess - his step brother John Johnson?

[RJNorton]

Excellent and logical guess, Eva, but it's not John D. Johnston. Try to think of a different kind of connection.

[Eva Elisabeth]

A Springfield neighbor perhaps?

[RJNorton]

I am sorry, Eva. He was not a Springfield neighbor.

[Eva Elisabeth]

Just to clarify - "a different kind of connection" outrules any family relationship?

Is the gentleman someone he dealt with in his legal career?

[RJNorton]

(09-27-2015 04:14 PM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:  Just to clarify - "a different kind of connection" outrules any family relationship?

Is the gentleman someone he dealt with in his legal career?

Just to clarify - "a different kind of connection" outrules any family relationship?

Yes, it does.

Is the gentleman someone he dealt with in his legal career?

No, he did not.

[Anita]

Lorenzo D. Thompson- who beat Lincoln in wrestling when serving together in the Black Hawk War.

[RJNorton]

Brilliant, Anita. As far as I know Thompson was the only person who ever clearly defeated Lincoln in wrestling. Lincoln's reputation as a wrestler was well-known.

Abraham Lincoln's version of the match is in the Fehrenbachers' book. It was told by Risdon M. Moore whose father arranged the wrestling match between Thompson and Lincoln. Risdon Moore met Lincoln in August of 1860, and (according to Risdon Moore) Lincoln described the match as follows:

"Gentlemen, I felt of Mr. Thompson, the St Clair champion, and told my boys I could throw him, and they could bet what they pleased. You see, I had never been thrown, or dusted, as the phrase then was, and, I believe, Thompson said the same to the St. Clair boys, that they might bet their bottom dollar that he could down me You may think a wrestle, or 'wrastle,' as we called such contests of skill and strength, was a small matter, but I tell you the whole army was out to see it. We took our holds, his choice first, a side hold I then realized from his grip for the first time, that he was a powerful man and that I would have no easy job. The struggle was a severe one, but after many passes and efforts he threw me. My boys yelled out 'a dog fall,' which meant then a drawn battle, but I told my boys it was fair, and then said to Thompson, 'now it's your turn to go down,' as it was my hold then, Indian hug. We took our holds again and after the fiercest struggle of the kind that I ever had, he threw me again, almost as easily at my hold as at his own. My men raised another protest, but I again told them it was a fair down. Why, gentlemen, that man could throw a grizzly bear."

Anita, I do not have any tickets to wrestling matches to send you, so I will send you free tickets to Ronda Rousey's next UFC match. It is against Holly Holm. The match is in Las Vegas.

[Anita]

Thanks for your post Roger. I've read Lincoln described on some sites as a "brawler" among other derogatory terms because of his wrestling. After your post I read up on the history of collegiate wrestling in the US and it puts Lincoln's wrestling in contest of the times. I was also surprised to learn that other Presidents enjoyed wrestling. Here are some excerpts from
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of..._wrestling

"The roots of collegiate wrestling can be traced back almost as far as the earliest moments in United States history. There were already wrestling styles among Native Americans varying from tribe and nation by the 15th and 16th centuries, when the first Europeans settled. The English and French who settled on the North American continent sought out wrestling as a popular pastime. Soon, there were local champions in every settlement, with contests between them on a regional level. The colonists in what would become the United States started out with something more akin to Greco-Roman wrestling, but soon found that style too restrictive in favor of a style which a greater allowance of holds.[1] In the backcountry of Virginia and the Carolinas, wrestling contests were among the favorite athletic events of Scots-Irish colonists. The brutality of the matches was so great that the Assembly of Virginia had to legislate against illegal holds by prohibiting "maiming 'by gouging, plunking or putting out an eye, biting, kicking or stomping upon'" an opponent. In the backcountry, these rules and laws were largely ignored.[2]


By the 18th century, wrestling soon became recognized as a legitimate spectator sport, despite its roughness. It was the major physical contact sport among men of all classes, as boxing did not catch on until the 19th century.[1] Among those who were well known for their wrestling techniques were several U.S. Presidents. George Washington was known to have had a wrestling championship in Virginia in the collar-and-elbow style that was county-wide and possibly colony-wide. At the age of 47, before he became President, Washington was still able to defeat seven challengers from the Massachusetts Volunteers. Andrew Jackson and Zachary Taylor, who favored wrestling as an army sport during his days in the Illinois Volunteers, were also well known for their wrestling.[1] Abraham Lincoln, as a 21-year-old in 1830, was the wrestling champion of his county in Illinois. At this time, where working at a store in New Salem, Illinois, Lincoln had a famous bout with Jack Armstrong, also a county wrestling champion. Lincoln won decisively when, after losing his temper when Armstrong began fouling him, he slammed Armstrong to the ground and knocked him out. Two years later, while serving as a captain in the Illinois Volunteers during the Black Hawk War, Lincoln lost his only recorded match to a soldier in another unit by fall. Wrestling was also practiced by Andrew Johnson, Ulysses S. Grant, Chester A. Arthur, and Theodore Roosevelt,[4] who always had an inclination to anything that involved physical exercise and did regular wrestling workouts throughout his service as Governor of New York.[1] William Howard Taft who was the heaviest of the Presidents at his "best weight" of 225 lb wrestled collar-and-elbow and was also the intramural heavyweight wrestling champion at Yale University. Calvin Coolidge was described as a "tolerable good" wrestler by his father until around age 14 when he took to "duding around and daydreaming about being a big-city lawyer."[1]

Wrestlers such as Abraham Lincoln did not settle for the collar-and-elbow as much as in a free-for-all style of wrestling that was widespread on the frontier.[1] Since "catch-as-catch-can" wrestling was very similar, it gained great popularity in fairs and festivals in the United States during the 19th century.[3] "

And thanks for the prize Roger. It will be a first for me!

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