The Queen's English

[L Verge]

We certainly know that what is termed "the Queen's - or King's - English" has been seriously butchered over the years. And, of course, the Brits will blame it on us blimey Yanks. The Victorian era, however, added some interesting words and terms to the language.

I have just finished reading How to Be a Victorian (loved it), and it has given me a chance to administer a test to those of you on this forum who are always yearning for new knowledge. I am going to post a list of words that I discovered while reading this book and am asking you (without cheating, at first) to tell me what they refer to. Like me, most of you will probably know a few of these. I also learned that I really am old because I remember some of the things from this book being in my family's home while I was growing up.

1. Knocker-upper (it's not what you think, so don't even go there).
2. A vest
3. Gaiters
4. A topper
5. Straw boater
6. Crinolette
7. Pit girls
8. Jakesmen
9. The Great Stink
10. WC
11. Earth closet
12. Snood
13. Strop
14. Nappy
15. Colliery
16. Omnibus
17. a copper
18. Sluice room
19. Bellyband
20. Dipping women
21. Mangle
22. Tripe
23. a la francaise vs. a la russe
24. Porridge
25. Dolly and posser

Have fun! Remember that, with the increased emigration from the British Isles during the Victorian era, many of these terms would likely have been familiar to or incorporated into an American's vocabulary.

BTW: What were the two main sources of sustenance for the average Brit during the first half of the 19th century?

[Rogerm]

Number 10 (WC) means "Water Closet" or what we would call a "bathroom." Number 23 probably means "the French way versus the Russian way."

[L Verge]

(11-30-2014 10:26 AM)Rogerm Wrote:  Number 10 (WC) means "Water Closet" or what we would call a "bathroom." Number 23 probably means "the French way versus the Russian way."

Correct on both; we're off to a good start. As for the French way vs. the Russian way, to what would we be referring?

[RJNorton]

Thanks to Betty I know what #3 - gaiters are!

[Rogerm]

At one time, both France and Russia were ruled by emperors; Russia in the form of its czars and by the Napoleonic rulers of France. Maybe the "French way vs. the Russian way" was referring to the two imperial systems. This is only a guess on my part.

[BettyO]

What fun!

2 - A Vest - an Undershirt; what Victorian gentlemen wore under their frock coat and over their shirt was known as a "Waist coat"

3- Gaiters - Cloth covers worn over shoes; i.e. what we call "Spats"

4- A High Hat - akin to a stovepipe hat like Lincoln's

5- A straw hat ;akin to that which Powell wore to the gallows

6- Crinoline (I think!)

7- Girls who worked in coal mines - there were also Pit Ponies; Sheltland or small ponies used in the mines to haul the coal baskets or carts

9- The Great Stink - the underground drains throughtout London; caused epidemics of cholera in the 1850s

10 - Water Closet - indoor toilet

12 - Snoods were knitted caps or covers worn on a ladies hair; i.e. a net

13 - Strop - was a leather strap used to polish razors

14 - Nappy was a diaper

15- Colliery - a coal mine and a Collier was a coal miner

16 - Omnibus was a horse drawn bus; we called them "horse cars" here

17 - A copper was a penny

18 - Sluice Rooms were where water was used to wash chamber pots; sick room elements; etc.

21 - Mangle - a wringer which was used to wringing clothing after washing

22 - Tripe - Cow's/sheep's stomach. Still sold in grocery stores in the meat section

23 - I think the difference between the dining styles of having food served and a buffet? I'm a bit shakey on this one....

24 - Porridge - mush - what we refer to as oatmeal?

And here's one.... What did "Pudding" usually refer to in England? This may be a tough one....

[L Verge]

(11-30-2014 10:48 AM)Rogerm Wrote:  At one time, both France and Russia were ruled by emperors; Russia in the form of its czars and by the Napoleonic rulers of France. Maybe the "French way vs. the Russian way" was referring to the two imperial systems. This is only a guess on my part.

You are absolutely on the right track, Roger; now apply it to something that might be a daily routine in a home of middle-class or upper-class people.

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(11-30-2014 10:40 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  Thanks to Betty I know what #3 - gaiters are!

Your answer is correct for females, but what about males?

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(11-30-2014 10:50 AM)BettyO Wrote:  What fun!

2 - A Vest - an Undershirt; what Victorian gentlemen wore under their frock coat and over their shirt was known as a "Waist coat"

3- Gaiters - Cloth covers worn over shoes; i.e. what we call "Spats"

4- A High Hat - akin to a stovepipe hat like Lincoln's

5- A straw hat ;akin to that which Powell wore to the gallows

6- Crinoline (I think!)

7- Girls who worked in coal mines - there were also Pit Ponies; Sheltland or small ponies used in the mines to haul the coal baskets or carts

9- The Great Stink - the underground drains throughtout London; caused epidemics of cholera in the 1850s

10 - Water Closet - indoor toilet

12 - Snoods were knitted caps or covers worn on a ladies hair; i.e. a net

13 - Strop - was a leather strap used to polish razors

14 - Nappy was a diaper

15- Colliery - a coal mine and a Collier was a coal miner

16 - Omnibus was a horse drawn bus; we called them "horse cars" here

17 - A copper was a penny

18 - Sluice Rooms were where water was used to wash chamber pots; sick room elements; etc.

21 - Mangle - a wringer which was used to wringing clothing after washing

22 - Tripe - Cow's/sheep's stomach. Still sold in grocery stores in the meat section

23 - I think the difference between the dining styles of having food served and a buffet? I'm a bit shakey on this one....

24 - Porridge - mush - what we refer to as oatmeal?

And here's one.... What did "Pudding" usually refer to in England? This may be a tough one....

I knew I should have made you off-limits on this, Betty, because you have the book. Now you've spoiled the guessing game for others! However, you are not exactly correct on all of your answers.

Gaiters are different for men and women. See my answer to Roger above. For women they are soft boots that rise just above the ankle. For men of the Victorian era, they extended from ankle to knee and were usually leather leg protectors while riding horses.

Crinolette was what came after the full crinoline craze. The skirts started gathering more towards the back and the crinoline became a half-cage effect, puffing out the back and ultimately leading to the bustle.

The treatment of pit girls and young children in the mines is absolutely horrifying to read about. The child labor in factories is not much better.

A copper could be a term for a penny, but this one was much larger. It was the original hot water heater. A large, copper tank heated by a fire at the bottom and highly prized by women who had to do laundry (especially for a living).

Sluice rooms were again something that the wealthy could take advantage of and add to their homes. It was a special room with sinks and sloping drains that carried waste away from the house and allowed space to clean the chamber pots and slop jars all in one place.

Wringers were what pushed the water out of wet clothes. A mangle, however, was a large contraption that allowed the damp clothes to be laid out full and then pressed with steam (or later electricity) to iron the clothes. I was raised with both wringer washers and a mangle in our home -- and warned each wash day to keep my arms and fingers clear from the dangerous parts.

Between RogerM and Betty, the a la francaise vs. a la russe boils down to a style of family eating. We are probably more familiar with a la francaise because it is basically where all the food is placed on the table, poppa cuts the meat, momma serves the soup, everyone passes the vegetable bowls. In a la russe, it requires a sizeable wait staff to pull it off. Think fancy dinner or restaurant where each course is served separately with dishes being removed after each course and a fresh set of dishes and food brought in.

There are still a few of my words that no one has tackled. Look back through the list and ponder about "dipping women," "knocker-uppers," "jakesmen," "dolly and posser," and any others that we've left out so far.

Don't forget the extra credit ones about the two basic daily foods and now Betty's challenge as to what "pudding" meant to the Victorians.

[Eva Elisabeth]

As for the pudding - I think "Yorkshire Pudding" was in explained in "If Only They Could Talk" as a salty piece of bakery, mainly made of flour, eggs, and oil, that was served before the meat was put on the table. The Intention was to already feed the eaters with the pudding and make them finally take less of the way more expensive meat.

As we learn BE at school first, we learn "vest" as a piece (shirt) of underwear before the AE meaning is added in a higher grade. The same goes for "nappy" (napkin).

"WC" is the "German" term for "restroom" - thus a small room with only a toilet and a sink, e.g. for guests in a restaurant etc. I doubt all Germans do know what the abbreviation stands for (water closet).

Porridge - the very typical English breakfast, just oat cooked in water, reminds me of "Wallace and Gromit":
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sJQUPT6Wsag

[Eva Elisabeth]

Forgot the Xmas Pudding - a sort of spicy cake consisting greatly of dry fruits and containing suet.

[Rogerm]

What Eva says about the term "WC" in German, applies also in French.

[Eva Elisabeth]

I oversaw the "mangler" - it's a "Mangel" in German, and laundries still offer to "mangeln" your clothes after washing, which actually means to press them in a rotary iron. And in my childhood "Omnibus" was still commonly used for what is now just a "Bus". "Omnibus" is Latin (dative plural of "omnis", "everyone") and just means "for all".

An earth closet I suppose is simply the old Roman latrine, a hole with a plank to sit on for the same needs as a WC. And a bellyband might be a decorative piece of male clothing ("Bauchbinde", thus literally the same, in German - a variety of a sash, "Schärpe"), worn (e.g. at weddings, or by an orchestra conductor) instead of a belt. It's broader and made of fine fabric, like the one worn by this gentleman:
   

Re: "What were the two main sources of sustenance for the average Brit during the first half of the 19th century?" - if it was the Irish, I'd guess potatoes. So I'll guess a corn or flour product (bread?), and, as the sea is near everywhere, and there are many rivers where it's not, and fishing is for free - maybe fish?

This task is great fun, Laurie!

[L Verge]

You've done your assignment very well, Eva.

Let's start with the last two questions first: The mainstays of a British meal throughout the first part of the 19th century were actually bread and beer. The latter is very full of nutrients (I was advised by our pediatrician to drink beer while nursing my daughter back in the 1970s). It was replaced by what we now assume is the national drink of England, tea, after the abstinence movement took hold.

I believe the original "pudding" was considered a meat dish similar to a sausage. It could be filled with all sorts of vile sounding things tied up in some form of clean, animal membrane, and boiled or steamed. Those with Scotch blood running through your veins, think Haggis. Yorkshire pudding is heavy with suet, as are many of the cake-like puddings that we see recipes for. I don't know if it were the Americans or the French - or maybe the Italians - who started removing the meat in sweet puddings and adding eggs to give it the needed consistency. It then became more custard than pudding. I remember years ago being curious about Spotted D**k Pudding and was a little disappointed to learn that the term referred only to the black currants in the concoction. My mother had some great recipes for various types of fruit puddings. One of my favorites is Persimmon Pudding.

Now, for the "weird" terms:

Knocker-uppers actually refers to an occupation. In the days before alarm clocks, people could be hired to walk the streets near dawn with a long cane and a lantern. They would use the cane to knock on designated windows in order to awaken the day laborers.

Assuming we all know what a privy is, we'll define a jakesman as someone who was hired to keep the privy pits clean. This was especially true in cities where privies were frequently close to the houses and could be shared by multiple families in the same slum areas. One report found fifteen families all depending on one privy. Jakesmen worked at night to scrape the pits clean and then transport their "products" to the great compost heaps (dung heaps) in the countryside.

Along the same subject, an earth closet was another term for water closet - except that it had a bucket of earth. When you pulled the lever, a certain amount of dirt would fall onto your dirt. It was regularly cleaned and taken to an outside shed that served as a composting heap.

There's one cute term that I forgot to include in the original list, but it fits in nicely here. Bum fodder was anything that one could use to clean one's self after using the privy. This generally meant printed matter such as newspapers, magazines, advertisements, envelopes, etc. These were cut into squares, a hole placed in one corner, and then they were threaded onto string and placed inside the privy for use. America actually started the practice of what we know as toilet paper being commercially produced (1857), and they developed a medicinal type. It was hard and shiny, however, because of the addition of medicine.

A bellyband referred to a soft, flannel scarf of sorts that was wrapped around a newborn's mid-section shortly after birth. Our ancestors did not worry about arms being exposed, but they sure worried about their baby's stomach and insides staying warm and in place. Once the umbilical cord was cut, it would be gently pressed down with a clean square of cotton or cotton lint - or even a coin - and the bellyband wrapped tightly around the torso. I actually found my mother's bellyband from 1914, and used it in an exhibit that we did at Surratt House decades ago on the stages of life (From Cradle to Coffin).

Dolly and posser refer to laundry utensils - long sticks with an agitator on one end (dolly) that was used to beat and swirl the clothes in the washtub, and the posser that looked like a long plunger to give you the up-and-down motion. There were also laundry forks, which were actually long sticks with a fork at one end for lifting the wet clothes.

Finally, dipping women earned their living at the seaside when public beaches and bathing became popular. Many beaches were segregated between men and women because men were often allowed to go into the water naked. Women, of course, had to maintain their dignity. Therefore, enterprising couples often rented bathing huts (or dipping huts) to the females so that they could change into their bathing suits in privacy and be wheeled to a suitable spot in the surf where they could alight from the hut and enter into knee-deep water for several minutes of therapeutic bathing. Dipping women came along with the rental of the hut, and would stand in the water to assist in dunking/dipping m'lady until the practice was reversed.

Thus ends our lesson on Victoriana for the day, week, month, or year...

[Eva Elisabeth]

(11-30-2014 06:44 PM)L Verge Wrote:  You've done your assignment very well, Eva.

Well, I tried hard but it seems I only scored on the bread...at least I can add an aside to this:
The many thousands of labourers who built the pyramids in Gizeh received a wage in the form of bread and beer.

The standard ration (2686-2181 BC) for a labourer was ten loaves and a measure of beer, supervisors and those of higher status were entitled to hundreds of loaves and many jugs of beer a day.

[HerbS]

#1-A try,of course,-upstairs door-knocker-#17-police officer?To think,that I got a scholarship to Oxford,"go figure".

[L Verge]

Herb, go back a few posts to see the answers that I gave. It would be interesting to do a similar thread with American terms that are not widely heard any more.