Did Robert Lincoln Ride the Funeral Train to Baltimore?

[LincolnToddFan]

(12-24-2014 06:19 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  Hi Toia. I cannot remember the source, but I do recall reading somewhere that John Hanks was present for the Springfield funeral.

Yes, you are exactly right, now I remember. Dennis and Aunt Sarah were not there but John was. Thanks Roger!

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(12-24-2014 08:36 AM)STS Lincolnite Wrote:  How did Mary feel about the Hankses? If she did not get along with them perhaps she did not want them there.

That's a great question, but I don't remember reading that Mary had any animosity toward the Hankses. The published compilation of her letters has one that she wrote to AL's stepmother Sarah Bush Lincoln a few weeks after the murder. It was an exquisite, compassionate letter to the woman she knew her late husband revered. It was an example of how Mary could be at her best. In any case I doubt she would have had much influence over whether any of the Hankses attended the funeral, especially the Springfield internment. She was completely out of it for weeks, sequestered in the WH under a doctor's care with only Lizzie Keckly and Tad in attendance.

It seems ironic but also appropriate that it was the Todds who acted as chief mourners at the Springfield burial. For better or worse, AL seemed to have adopted his wife's troublesome family as his own during his lifetime.

[RJNorton]

I agree with Toia; I don't think I've ever seen anything Mary said or wrote regarding a negative feeling toward the Hankses.

However, Harriet Hanks, who lived with the Lincoln family for a brief period c.1845, seems not to have been a big fan of Mary (or perhaps was writing what she thought Herndon would like to read?). Harriet was a daughter of Dennis Hanks and married Augustus H. Chapman. She wrote several letters to Herndon. In one of them she wrote:

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Charleston Ills Nov the 21st 66

Sir

Your favor of the 15th Came duly to hand. I will now endeavor to answer the Same. Enny information that I Can give you in regard to the loved and lamented Lincoln will be freely given, but would rather Say nothing about his Wife, as I Could Say but little in her favor I Conclude it best to Say nothing. and I persume it is not really nesessary that I Should. You ask me how Mr Lincoln acted at home. I Can Say and that truly he was all that a Husband Father and Neighbor Should be. Kind and affectionate to his wife and Child. Bob being the (only one they had when I was with them), and vary pleasent to all around him never did I hear him utter an un kind word to enny one. for instance one day he undertook to correct his Child and his wife was determined that he Should not. and attempted to take it from him but in this She failed She then tried tongue lashing but met with the Same fate, for Mr Lincoln corrected his Child as a Father ought to do, in the face of his Wifes anger and that too without even Changing his Countenance, or making enny reply to his wife. His favorite way of reading when at home was lying down on the floor I fancy I See him now lying full length in the Hall of his old home reading When not engaged in reading law Books he would read literarry works, and was vary fond of reading Poetry and often when he would be or appeard to be in a deep Study — Commence and repeat aloud Some piece that he had taken a fancy to and Commited to Memory Such as the one you have already in print. and the burrial of Sir Tom Moore, and So on. he often told laughable Jokes and Strories when he thought we was looking gloomy. Your Lecture has been received and Carefully read I found it vary interesting. please accept my thanks for the Same. Will write you again when I return from a visit to Grand Ma Lincoln

[Eva Elisabeth]

(12-24-2014 11:56 AM)LincolnToddFan Wrote:  

(12-24-2014 08:36 AM)STS Lincolnite Wrote:  How did Mary feel about the Hankses? If she did not get along with them perhaps she did not want them there.

That's a great question, but I don't remember reading that Mary had any animosity toward the Hankses. The published compilation of her letters has one that she wrote to AL's stepmother Sarah Bush Lincoln a few weeks after the murder. It was an exquisite, compassionate letter to the woman she knew her late husband revered. It was an example of how Mary could be at her best.

I second this - I don't think Mary had any animosity toward the Hankses and haven't ever read this. (Didn't she mainly have animosities towards potential rivals of any kind? The Hankses sure weren't.)

And I, too, immediately thought of the affectionate letter Mary sent her mother-in-law (on Dec.19, 1867) along with some gifts:

My dear Madam:

In memory of the dearly beloved one, who always remembered you with so much affection, will you not do me the favor of accepting these few trifles?
God has been very merciful to you, in prolonging your life and I trust your health has also been preserved — In my great agony of mind I can not trust myself to write about, what so entirely fills my thoughts, my darling husband; knowing how well you loved him also, is a greatful satisfaction to me. Believe
me, dear madam, if I can ever be of any service to you, in any respect, I am entirely at your service . . I will be pleased to learn whether this package was received by you. Perhaps you know that our youngest boy is named for your husband, Thomas Lincoln, this child, the idol of his father — I am blessed in both my sons, they are very good and noble. The oldest is growing very much like his own dear father, I am a deeply afflicted woman, and hope you will pray for me.

I am, my dear Madam affectionately
yours
Mary Lincoln.

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(12-24-2014 06:19 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  Hi Toia. I cannot remember the source, but I do recall reading somewhere that John Hanks was present for the Springfield funeral.

One source is p. 291 in "Blood on the Moon", stating that John Hanks came in Sarah Bush Lincoln's place, being A. L.'s favorite cousin.

[HerbS]

Eva,now that is research at it's best!Merry Christmas to you and your family!

[Eva Elisabeth]

Thank you, Herb - and I, too, wish you and yours happy Christmas holidays!

[LincolnToddFan]

I agree with HerbS. Great work Eva.

I thought that letter had been written in the summer of '65, but you have demonstrated that it is dated much later than that.

[loetar44]

Accounts I've read vary, the history isn't easy to find, at least for me ..... On May 4, 1865, AL’s (and Willie’s) remains were placed in the receiving tomb at Oak Ridge. But where was Robert Todd Lincoln at this very moment? Had he rode in the procession, accompanied by a cousin (John Hanks ?). I remember that I once read this story, and I also read that he and some of the closest friends and advisers (who ?) of AL flanked the doors (of the vault) during the placement of the coffins in the vault. The problem is that I can’t recall where and when I read this. Additional question: where was Tad? Was he with RTL or with his mother in the White House?

[RJNorton]

(01-11-2015 05:24 PM)loetar44 Wrote:  Additional question: where was Tad? Was he with RTL or with his mother in the White House?

I think Tad stayed back with Mary. Dr. Wayne C. Temple writes, "That evening (May 3), Capt. Robert T. Lincoln arrived (in Springfield), accompanied by John George Nicolay, Lincoln's secretary. They were close friends. Robert immediately went to the residence of John Todd Stuart where he had been invited to stay."

[loetar44]

(01-11-2015 05:42 PM)RJNorton Wrote:  

(01-11-2015 05:24 PM)loetar44 Wrote:  Additional question: where was Tad? Was he with RTL or with his mother in the White House?

I think Tad stayed back with Mary. Dr. Wayne C. Temple writes, "That evening (May 3), Capt. Robert T. Lincoln arrived (in Springfield), accompanied by John George Nicolay, Lincoln's secretary. They were close friends. Robert immediately went to the residence of John Todd Stuart where he had been invited to stay."

Thank you Roger. Nothing more known about RTL ?

[HerbS]

RTL was his eldest son,and by rights,he should have been with his family! But,who knows what their relationship was really like or about!Was it a"real"relationship between father and son? The same goes with MTL!

[RJNorton]

(01-11-2015 05:24 PM)loetar44 Wrote:  Accounts I've read vary, the history isn't easy to find, at least for me ..... On May 4, 1865, AL’s (and Willie’s) remains were placed in the receiving tomb at Oak Ridge. But where was Robert Todd Lincoln at this very moment? Had he rode in the procession, accompanied by a cousin (John Hanks ?). I remember that I once read this story, and I also read that he and some of the closest friends and advisers (who ?) of AL flanked the doors (of the vault) during the placement of the coffins in the vault. The problem is that I can’t recall where and when I read this. Additional question: where was Tad? Was he with RTL or with his mother in the White House?

Kees, I found some information in Jason Emerson's bio. He writes that RTL rode in the procession accompanied by Elizabeth Grimsley. At the cemetery the obsequies took approximately an hour, and then the receiving vault was locked. The key was given to RTL who then gave it to John Stuart for safekeeping. Jason also writes that after the funeral a Springfield resident went to Stuart's home where she found RTL so despondent that her "heart ached for him." Robert stayed in Springfield for the next three days and then returned to Washington.

[HerbS]

Thanks for the research Roger! It shows how AL's death had such an effect on RTL.I would have reacted in a similar fashion!

[loetar44]

(01-12-2015 10:34 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  

(01-11-2015 05:24 PM)loetar44 Wrote:  Accounts I've read vary, the history isn't easy to find, at least for me ..... On May 4, 1865, AL’s (and Willie’s) remains were placed in the receiving tomb at Oak Ridge. But where was Robert Todd Lincoln at this very moment? Had he rode in the procession, accompanied by a cousin (John Hanks ?). I remember that I once read this story, and I also read that he and some of the closest friends and advisers (who ?) of AL flanked the doors (of the vault) during the placement of the coffins in the vault. The problem is that I can’t recall where and when I read this. Additional question: where was Tad? Was he with RTL or with his mother in the White House?

Kees, I found some information in Jason Emerson's bio. He writes that RTL rode in the procession accompanied by Elizabeth Grimsley. At the cemetery the obsequies took approximately an hour, and then the receiving vault was locked. The key was given to RTL who then gave it to John Stuart for safekeeping. Jason also writes that after the funeral a Springfield resident went to Stuart's home where she found RTL so despondent that her "heart ached for him." Robert stayed in Springfield for the next three days and then returned to Washington.

Thank you Roger, this is exactly I wanted to know. Some sort of proof that RTL was not that cold calculating son which some thought he was.

[LincolnToddFan]

(01-12-2015 10:34 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  

(01-11-2015 05:24 PM)loetar44 Wrote:  Accounts I've read vary, the history isn't easy to find, at least for me ..... On May 4, 1865, AL’s (and Willie’s) remains were placed in the receiving tomb at Oak Ridge. But where was Robert Todd Lincoln at this very moment? Had he rode in the procession, accompanied by a cousin (John Hanks ?). I remember that I once read this story, and I also read that he and some of the closest friends and advisers (who ?) of AL flanked the doors (of the vault) during the placement of the coffins in the vault. The problem is that I can’t recall where and when I read this. Additional question: where was Tad? Was he with RTL or with his mother in the White House?

Kees, I found some information in Jason Emerson's bio. He writes that RTL rode in the procession accompanied by Elizabeth Grimsley. At the cemetery the obsequies took approximately an hour, and then the receiving vault was locked. The key was given to RTL who then gave it to John Stuart for safekeeping. Jason also writes that after the funeral a Springfield resident went to Stuart's home where she found RTL so despondent that her "heart ached for him." Robert stayed in Springfield for the next three days and then returned to Washington.

Thanks Roger, that's very sad. Poor Robert! Wasn't John Todd Stuart a cousin of Mary's? I wonder why RTL gave him the vault keys instead of keeping them himself? Also in the book "Lincoln's Boys" that was released last year, it said that John Nicolay went into a deep depression after the funeral and remained in Springfield with RTL a few days.

[RJNorton]

(01-12-2015 10:10 PM)LincolnToddFan Wrote:  Wasn't John Todd Stuart a cousin of Mary's?

Hi Toia. Yes, indeed! Please see Donna's post here.