Greenback Saloon.

[loetar44]

Who can help? Was Jim Ferguson's Greenback Saloon the blue, green or red buidling? Thanks.

   

[RJNorton]

Kees, I believe it's the red one - 452 10th Street. What I have read is that it was next to Ford's on the north side.

Here's a little of Ferguson's trial testimony (from Poore):

Q. Do you reside in Washington City?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What business are you engaged in?
A. The restaurant business.
Q. Where?
A. No. 452, Tenth Street.
Q. Near Ford’s Theatre?
A. Adjoining the theatre on the upper side.

[loetar44]

Thanks Roger, it was my guess too, cause Ford's was 454 (now 511). Petersen's was 453 (now 516). Was Taltavull's Saloon 455 ?

[Gene C]

Interesting photo. Any idea when it was taken?
I noticed no mouning crepe, no people or animals on the street

[loetar44]

(09-22-2014 03:54 PM)Gene C Wrote:  Interesting photo. Any idea when it was taken?
I noticed no mouning crepe, no people or animals on the street

Brady, Mathew B., ca. 1823-1896, photographer

Date Created/Published: [between 1871 and 1880]# Medium: 1 negative : glass, wet collodion.

Ford's Theater and, to the right, the Central Free Dispensary, which opened in 1871. (Source: D. Tooley, 2007)

here's the Original

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bennetthal...59/sizes/l

[RJNorton]

(09-22-2014 03:47 PM)loetar44 Wrote:  Thanks Roger, it was my guess too, cause Ford's was 454 (now 511). Petersen's was 453 (now 516). Was Taltavull's Saloon 455 ?

Kees, I do not know, but my guess would be an even number for that side of the street at that time. I've never seen an address for Taltavul's. Maybe someone will know.

[L Verge]

Like Roger, I'm not sure; but my guess would be that Taltavull's Star Saloon would be 452 because the numbers started at Pennsylvania Avenue and went up the streets? The Greenback would be 456?

[Jim Garrett]

(09-22-2014 03:54 PM)Gene C Wrote:  Interesting photo. Any idea when it was taken?
I noticed no mouning crepe, no people or animals on the street

I always thought that image was well after the assassination because the exterior seems have the same surface all the way from top to bottom, where the picture of Ford's taken shortly after the assassination shows a lighter color exterior on the main floor.

[STS Lincolnite]

(09-22-2014 03:39 PM)RJNorton Wrote:  Kees, I believe it's the red one - 452 10th Street. What I have read is that it was next to Ford's on the north side.

Here's a little of Ferguson's trial testimony (from Poore):

Q. Do you reside in Washington City?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What business are you engaged in?
A. The restaurant business.
Q. Where?
A. No. 452, Tenth Street.
Q. Near Ford’s Theatre?
A. Adjoining the theatre on the upper side.

Ferguson reported his residence as "452 Tenth Street adjoining Ford's Theatre" in his April 18, 1865 statement. Since he owned the Greenback it makes since he would live there as well. Since the Star Saloon adjoined Ford's on the South that would mean if the Greenback adjoined Ford's it would have to be on the North as Roger said - so the red building. I too would then have to assume that the address of the Star was 456 Tenth street. Are there any business directories from that time? I would think one of those would confirm the address for all those buildings.

[RJNorton]

Is it possible the building on the south side did not have a separate address and was just considered an extension of Ford's?

[Jim Garrett]

The Star Saloon building was built when the Ford's rebuilt the theatre after the fire.

[L Verge]

I had my D.C. expert, Joan Chaconas, searching her 1864 D.C. Directory today (thanks, Betty, for putting it on her work computer!), and neither the Star Saloon nor the Greenback Saloon are listed - at least under those names. Under people, there are lots of Fergusons, but she found no James listed. Peter Taltavull is listed, but at his residence on Eighth Street. We already knew that because he lived only a short distance from the Herold family.

Does anyone know how long Ferguson and the Greenback were in business? It is possible that the material for the 1864 Directory was gathered in 1863, and Jimmy hadn't arrived in town yet? A wide leap, but a possibility...

Joan also said that the street numbering was supposed to run upwards from Pennsylvania Avenue, but it was done rather haphazardly, and we question whether or not the numbers even appeared on the buildings. The house numbering today seems to be random sometimes. For instance, Surratt House Museum is at 9110 Brandywine Road - our Visitors' Center is about 100 yards away on the same property, and its address is 9118 Brandywine Road. The only thing we can figure is that the "planners" years before expected three more houses to be built between Surratt House and the 1937 home that became our Visitors' Center. Talk about passing sugar between windows!

[Jim Garrett]

I don't think the Starr was opened very long. It may well not have been in business when they assembled the 1864 directory

[RJNorton]

Who owned the Star Saloon? The vast majority of books I own say it was Peter Taltavul's Star Saloon. But on p. 221 of American Brutus it says it was owned by Scipiano Grillo. And in Tom's Backstage at the Lincoln Assassination it says Taltavul and Grillo were co-owners. I am assuming Tom is right, and I wonder why so many books just associate it just with Taltavul. In Taltavul's obituary it says he was the owner.

[Houmes]

(09-23-2014 07:57 PM)L Verge Wrote:  I had my D.C. expert, Joan Chaconas, searching her 1864 D.C. Directory today (thanks, Betty, for putting it on her work computer!), and neither the Star Saloon nor the Greenback Saloon are listed - at least under those names. Under people, there are lots of Fergusons, but she found no James listed. Peter Taltavull is listed, but at his residence on Eighth Street. We already knew that because he lived only a short distance from the Herold family.

Boyd's Washington Directory for 1864 lists Peter Taltavull has having a "restaurant" at 561 8th east. Grillo Scippionse is listed as a musician living at G south near 8th east.