Lincoln's last words

[Gene C]

Talking about visitng Jerusalem during the middle of an englsih comedy, seems unlikely to me. Accoring to Mary Lincoln: Biography of a Mariage by Ruth Painter Randall, Mary Lincoln wrote that she was holding Mr Lincoln's hand when the fatal shot was fired.

Mary Lincoln was under a great amount of stress following the assassination. She was totally consumed with grief. Since she and Abraham had discussed travel plans after his term had ended, perhaps even on the afternoon of his assassinatin, it is conceivable that in her mind, these were the last words Lincoln said to her. In any event, they were probably some of the words he spoke to her that Good Friday. Since it was a private conversation, no one else heard it, and we have to take into account her state of mind following the assassination.

[loetar44]

Eva Elisabeth wrote: "I don't know the 1882 interview Kees recalled though, but I'd rather rely on her memory in 1866 than short before her death. Plus if I understood correctly the 1882 source was only secondary and even later ("Noyes W. Minor...later wrote the words down")."

It took me some time, but I've found it. My recollection about the interview in 1882 is false. In fact Rev. Miner had long conversations with Mary and reported this conversations in a manuscript (lecture) entitled “Personal Reminiscences of Abraham Lincoln,” on July 10th, 1882. Mary died at July 16, 1882, so it was indeed very short before her passing. Rev. Miner was a Baptist minister who, with his family lived near the Lincolns in Springfield from 1855 to 1861 and had a (close) personal and social relationship with them. His lecture on Abraham Lincoln is now kept at the Illinois State Historical Library. I have the Original manuscript in pdf format, which was published by the Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library and Museum. The ALPL&M holds all rights and permissions. If you are interested in reading the manuscript (56 pages in Miner's own hand) you can preview (and download) it at my box cloud, by clicking:

https://app.box.com/s/ph2a2nn9krubpzlu24yo

On page 54/55 you can read the exact wording of the text we discussed here.

BTW: I still am suspicious of the religiously charged remembrance retold by this clergyman ....

[Eva Elisabeth]

Thanks, Kees, for providing the pdf download, what a fascinating document!!!
Nevertheless I second your last statement, leaving out "still". I consider Mary's letter and Dr. Henry's letter reliable, both written in close proximity to the event (especially the latter letter), compared to Rev. Miner's recollections of what Mary told 17 years later - a few days before her death. Time expands memory, and according to W. A. Evans in "Mrs. Abraham Lincoln", "in 1882...there is testimony that her mind showed evidence of loss of quality", and that "there is considerable suspicion of diabetic coma, in some degree, during the last week of her life". Since IMO the entire wording of the account Miner noted down to me sounds quite Mary-like, but in no way Lincoln-like, I would believe her mind moved the statement uttered earlier in the week (see her letter) to the "end", and "extended" it by shifting it onto a religious level which sure comforted her to some extent (thinking of religious matters and in religious terms).

[RJNorton]

I agree, Eva. For some parts of the overall Lincoln story, as well as the assassination story, we rely on recollections 10, 20, 30, 40+ years after the event. In this case, however, we are fortunate to have something written only a few days after the shooting at Ford's. It was written by someone we know tended to Mary in the days and weeks after her husband's death. I think this is why the letter Dr. Henry wrote is the best evidence we have on this matter.

[wsanto]

None of this fits the narrative that at the time of the fatal shot Lincoln was leaning forward looking down and leftward and into the crowd. That would be looking away from Mary who was sitting to his right.

That narrative has been used as an explanation for the gunshot entry wound and trajectory being on the left side of Lincoln's head.

Some have even speculated that Booth entered through the open door to box 8 (as opposed to Box 7) and approached Lincoln slightly from his right and then (presumably) fired with his right hand. If any of this is true, Lincoln had to be looking leftward and downward when the shot was fired.

[LincolnMan]

Some author has mentioned that General Burnside was the object of Lincoln's attention- as Lincoln looked down on the main floor from his box seat.

[Eva Elisabeth]

(08-23-2014 09:24 PM)wsanto Wrote:  None of this fits the narrative that at the time of the fatal shot Lincoln was leaning forward looking down and leftward and into the crowd. That would be looking away from Mary who was sitting to his right.

That narrative has been used as an explanation for the gunshot entry wound and trajectory being on the left side of Lincoln's head.

Some have even speculated that Booth entered through the open door to box 8 (as opposed to Box 7) and approached Lincoln slightly from his right and then (presumably) fired with his right hand. If any of this is true, Lincoln had to be looking leftward and downward when the shot was fired.

For my understanding, "last words" doesn't necessarily mean they were uttered right before he was shot?! (Usually one doesn't talk most of the time at the theater.)

[RJNorton]

(08-23-2014 09:45 PM)LincolnMan Wrote:  Some author has mentioned that General Burnside was the object of Lincoln's attention- as Lincoln looked down on the main floor from his box seat.

J. Mark Powell mentions this in his blog here. It's funny, though, as I don't recall ever reading in a book that Burnside was at Ford's that night. Lincoln had previously attended the theater with Burnside (and Burnside sitting with him in the presidential box), but my mind is drawing a blank on Burnside being present in the audience on April 14th. I do agree with what Eva said regarding the last words. I also agree with Dr. Bill Santo on the positioning of Lincoln's head at the moment Booth fired the fatal shot.

Maybe someone else will know - is there a documented source for Burnside's presence at the theater that night?

[LincolnMan]

Here is another site that asserts Burnside being at Fords that fateful night:
suvcw.org/garcinc/aeburnside.htm

[loetar44]

It's confusing for me. I've not found convincing evidence that Burnside was present at Ford's Theatre the night of Lincoln's assassination. President Lincoln visited Ford’s several times during his presidency, but I don't know how many times. I found conflicting numbers, 9 times, 12 times, 13 times, 19 times ??? Does anybody know the exact number? Anyway it seems that his "most recent visit" (before April 14) was on February 10, 1865, to see John Sleeper Clarke perform in the comedy Love in Livery. On that occasion he was accompanied by Generals Grant and Burnside and the three men sat in the presidential box (without benefit of guard or attendant).

http://weeklyview.net/2013/11/14/the-marble-heart
states the following: "On February 10, 1865, at another Ford’s Theatre performance just weeks before the assassination, President Lincoln attended the play Love or Livery. Although Booth was not in this play, it did star John Sleeper Clarke — John Wilkes Booth’s brother-in-law. Lincoln had two guests with him that night who would play a part in the tragedy two months later; Generals U.S. Grant and Hoosier-born Ambrose Burnside. General Grant was supposed to have attended the play Our American Cousin with Lincoln that night but backed out at the last minute. General Burnside did attend the play. Some historians contend that it was the sight of Burnside that caught Lincoln’s attention, causing the President to look down and to the left from the elevated box onto the main floor seating area at the exact moment Booth fired his weapon. This movement would cause the bullet to come to rest behind Mr. Lincoln’s left eye."

And http://abesblogcabin.org/lincoln-and-for...e-tid-bits
says: "At another Ford’s Theatre performance (February 10, 1865), President Lincoln attended the play ‘Love or Livery.’ The play did not have Booth in it. It actually starred John Sleeper Clarke-John Wilkes Booth brother-in-law. Lincoln had two guests- Generals Grant and Burnside. Both Grant and Burnside have “parts” in the story of April 14, 1865. General Grant was supposed to have attended the play ‘Our American Cousin’ with Lincoln on that night but backed out earlier in the day. General Burnside did attend the play. In fact, some contend that Burnside caught Lincoln’s attention as he was looking down from the box onto the main floor seating area causing his head to turn to the left and downward just at the moment Booth fired his weapon and almost missed Lincoln’s head!".

Lincoln "turned his head away"...... Booth "almost missed Lincoln's head!" .... etc. Facts? Myths? Confabulations? I think that Booth aimed at the back of Lincoln's head and fired at point-blank range.... no more than that, it's horrible enough.

Something else. There is a modern doctor's view of the Lincoln assassination and the bullet trajectory. Dr. Blaine Houmes , a M.D., from Cedar Rapids, Iowa, who has studied the assassination from a medical viewpoint, concludes that the bullet ended behind or above the right eye, NOT behind Mr. Lincoln’s left eye, as is stated above. Dr. Houmes is also saying that Booth fired at point-blank range, about a foot away and more likely a few inches away. see:
http://www.abrahamlincolnonline.org/linc...edical.htm

I doubt that Gen. Burnside was at Ford's the evening of April 14, 1865. Remember that after the Battle of the Crater Burnside was relieved of command and sent on "extended leave" by Grant and he was never recalled to duty during the remainder of the CW. A court of inquiry placed the blame for the Crater fiasco on Burnside and in reaction he finally resigned on April 15, 1865. Why should he attend a British comedy the evening before and caught Lincoln’s attention? One of the many assassination myths????

[Eva Elisabeth]

(08-24-2014 05:28 PM)loetar44 Wrote:  Something else. There is a modern doctor's view of the Lincoln assassination and the bullet trajectory. Dr. Blaine Houmes , a M.D., from Cedar Rapids, Iowa, who has studied the assassination from a medical viewpoint, concludes that the bullet ended behind or above the right eye, NOT behind Mr. Lincoln’s left eye, as is stated above.Dr. Houmes is also saying that Booth fired at point-blank range, about a foot away and more likely a few inches away.

Hi Kees, you might like to read this:
http://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussio...-1345.html
(especially post #14!)

[L Verge]

I surely think that, if Burnside had been in the audience, more notice would have been taken by the press. He also had the rank, certainly, to assume command of getting the situation in the theater under control. I cannot imagine that any shame bestowed upon him at the Crater would cause him to abandon his Commander-in-Chief and slink unnoticed out the door. Unless he had shaved off that distinctive facial hair, someone would have noticed him and commented on it at some point.

Dr. Blaine Houmes contributes to this forum, and has spoken at a Surratt conference as well as writing on the trajectory of the bullet. He puts forth an excellent case.

[wsanto]

If Dr Houmes is correct, despite the report of the official autopsy which indicates the bullet traveled through the left side of Lincoln's brain, then that trajectory would even further support the narrative that Lincoln was leaning forward and looking down and left. It is also supported by some of the eyewitness testimony from the audience that observed Lincoln in this position at the time of the shot.

I agree Lincoln's last words were probably spoken to Mary sometime before the fatal shot. I was just surprised that the letter seemed to indicate that the fatal shot occurred with Mary and Mr. Lincoln looking at each other.

I also like to think that Lincoln, knowing the punchline was imminent, was looking into the crowd to enjoy their reaction to joke.

[loetar44]

Thanks Eva for the link. The bullet’s trajectory probably spared Lincoln’s frontal lobes and his vital brain stem areas, but IMO no modern treatment would have saved Lincoln.
It’s all gruesome, mind-blowing, morbid... but still fascinating. This thread was about Lincoln’s last words. I now tend to think –after the discussion- that Lincoln spoke his last words to Mary shortly before the fatal shot (however not a split second before the shot) and that these last words were probably "She won't think anything about it". After these words he probably leaned forward and looked down and to the left (but IMO not to Burnside). Right at that moment Booth put the bullet into his brain. Between his conversation with Mary and the shot no further words were said. I think most of you have seen the assassination scene from the TV movie The Day Lincoln Was Shot (1998). Is this an accurate reenactment? In this clip of the movie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBLsOQPu23U
you hear Lincoln speak the words "She won't think anything about it" and you see Lincoln leaning forward and looking down and left at the moment of the shot, but the film has many inaccuracies. To sum up a few (as you will see in the clip). (1) the hole in the door look like more than an inch wide, but I’ve read somewhere it was slightly wider than a pin hole; (2) Booth yells “Sic Semper Tyrannus” in the box instead on the stage; (3) he also yells “The south is avenged” when he landed on the stage, but it is the question he actually did that; (4) Booth enters the presidential box during the “laugh”, but all accounts say he entered the box before the “laugh”, etc. Shall we ever know for sure that Lincoln’s last words were indeed "She won't think anything about it" and that he indeed was leaning forward and looking down and left when the shot fell? Dr. Bill Santo: Can you name some eyewitness testimony from the audience that observed Lincoln in this position ? I'm not a M.D. nor a ballistic expert, but I know that when a bullet is fired, its trajectory to its final destination is divided into three parts. The internal part of the trajectory concerns what happens from pulling the trigger to the bullet leaving Booth's derringer. The external trajectory involves the journey from the derringer to the target. The final part of the bullet's journey, from the target to the place where it comes to rest, is the terminal trajectory. When a human being is the target, all these trajectories get involved, not only the terminal trajectory.

[L Verge]

Just a quick note as to the size of the hole in the door to the presidential box: The door has been on display for years, and the questionable hole is closer to being about a half-inch in diameter if I remember correctly -- certainly larger than a pin hole.