One more post, on one broken leg.

[SSlater]

I do not see a need to determine "when". Booth broke his leg, and I do not criticize others who wish to know. My thoughts go this was:
Booth jumped to the stage. He may or may not have broken his leg. (No examination was made.) If he damaged the leg in any way, his heavy boot kept the leg functioning, as if it already had a splint. Then, somewhere en-route to the Surratt Tavern, his horse stumbles and falls and aggravates the sore leg. Lets say that they take the boot off - Bingo, a broken leg. Herald was not aware of the previous jump, so he rightly assumes that the horse broke the leg. They put the boot back on and the hills still ring from the profanity that was generated by the boot being put on. Off they go......
This is no more fiction in this depiction, than in all the guesses that have gone before. However, this suggestion allows each camp to be correct and it is very possible to have gone down as described. I can't prove you to be right, nor can you prove this to be wrong.

[J. Beckert]

I agree, John. I've also wondered if Booth didn't suffer a fracture on his hard landing that was turned into a break by the horse fall.

[LincolnMan]

Makes sense.

[Troy Cowan]

(09-01-2013 07:58 PM)SSlater Wrote:  They put the boot back on and the hills still ring from the profanity that was generated by the boot being put on.

I am a little concerned about your statement that " They put the boot back on and the hills still ring from the profanity". My understanding of Booth's approach to life is that he was a cultured man of fine taste and a man and impeccable manners. It is said that he never cussed or used profanity.

There is another man that the hills still ring from his profanity and his name is James William Boyd. It is said that he was frightfully profane.

[Gene C]

Thanks Troy for clearing that up
Bewildering why Boyd borrowed Booth's boot,


......unless Boyd was trying to draw the Yankees off Booth's trail with bogus footprints so they would follow and kill him (Boyd) in Garrett's barn instead of Booth, and Booth would escape with his life and the secrets he (Booth) carried with him would remain hidden for the next 150 years. What a guy! It almost worked. (the guy shot at Garrett's did have on Booth's boot, right? Or, did the Yanks put Booth's boot on the dead guy after they shot him?
Nice of Davey to also keep the secret all these years....but
according to some recently discovered underlined pages in a book that once belonged to Davey's sister's ex-boyfriend's next door neighbor's mailman's barber's, second counsin's great great grandniece, that I purchased at a flea market at a later to be revealed location, .....what was the question? Oh yes, Boyd did indeed exchange boot with Booth, trusting the truth would become known some 147 years later.
Did I leave anything out?

[Jenny]

Quote:Did I leave anything out?

You forgot the part in which John Wilkes Booth's alien friends teleported him to India, leaving a willing and brave James William Boyd to die in his stead.

Anyway, I know there's a lot of evidence for Booth breaking his leg on stage, and a fall on the horse would not have helped matters either way. I think it *could* be possible that Booth wrote that he broke his leg in the theater to make the jump and his subsequent escape sound more heroic when he actually did break it by the horse falling on him. Just a thought. I really could go one way or the other on this one.

Quote:I agree, John. I've also wondered if Booth didn't suffer a fracture on his hard landing that was turned into a break by the horse fall.

I've wondered about this also. Interesting to think about!

[wsanto]

(09-01-2013 07:58 PM)SSlater Wrote:  I do not see a need to determine "when". Booth broke his leg, and I do not criticize others who wish to know. My thoughts go this was:
Booth jumped to the stage. He may or may not have broken his leg. (No examination was made.) If he damaged the leg in any way, his heavy boot kept the leg functioning, as if it already had a splint. Then, somewhere en-route to the Surratt Tavern, his horse stumbles and falls and aggravates the sore leg. Lets say that they take the boot off - Bingo, a broken leg. Herald was not aware of the previous jump, so he rightly assumes that the horse broke the leg. They put the boot back on and the hills still ring from the profanity that was generated by the boot being put on. Off they go......
This is no more fiction in this depiction, than in all the guesses that have gone before. However, this suggestion allows each camp to be correct and it is very possible to have gone down as described. I can't prove you to be right, nor can you prove this to be wrong.

What evidence do we have that the horse even ever fell?---
Herold said so? Booth and Herold told others the horse fell during their escape to explain his broken leg? Booth's pants were muddy?

There were no witnesses to the horse fall. Herold is a liar and lied in his statements to investigators. Mudd is a liar and lied in his statements to investigators. Booth and Herold were lying to everyone in creating the cover they were rebel soldiers returning home. Maybe (IMO probably) they were lying about the horse fall. I bet none of those folks believed the horse fall story when the full story of the assassination became known.

Was Booth lying in his diary? Not really--he was confessing to the murder and making his case. He embellished some small facts but was mostly telling the truth. Why would he lie about breaking his leg in the leap rather than just say he broke his leg later in the escape?

This can-we-all-just-get-along theory that Booth broke his leg in the leap and the horse fall made it worse is the least likely thing that happened.

[Troy Cowan]

Gene said, "The guy shot at Garrett's did have on Booth's boot, right?'

No! he had on a pair of boots. When the body was given to the Booth family for burial, the body sewn in the blankets had a boot on each foot.

[Dave Taylor]

(09-11-2013 08:22 PM)Troy Cowan Wrote:  Gene said, "The guy shot at Garrett's did have on Booth's boot, right?'

No! he had on a pair of boots. When the body was given to the Booth family for burial, the body sewn in the blankets had a boot on each foot.

Help me with your timeline, Troy. When did Booth and Boyd supposedly switch places?

[RJNorton]

(09-11-2013 07:41 PM)wsanto Wrote:  Was Booth lying in his diary? Not really--he was confessing to the murder and making his case. He embellished some small facts but was mostly telling the truth. Why would he lie about breaking his leg in the leap rather than just say he broke his leg later in the escape?

Bill, as you know from previous discussions, I agree with you wholeheartedly. I feel the diary is the best evidence, and I feel the horse fall story is essentially hearsay.

However, that said, I am certainly willing to look at other evidence. Is there evidence we have not yet discussed? I consider Mike Kauffman a punctilious researcher - one of the very best. He writes, "During his escape Booth told about a dozen people he had broken his leg when his horse stumbled and fell on him." I do not think Mike Kauffman would write that unless he could back it up. Personally I can think of only a handful of folks Booth told. Does anyone know of additional statements that we have not yet looked at on the forum? I am curious how Mike gets "about a dozen." Apparently there must be additional accounts I have never seen, and I would like to read exactly what the people had to say.

[L Verge]

I questioned that in 2005 when I first read it in Brutus. I already knew his theory, but was very surprised to see him use the "about a dozen" number. I tried to put together a list of even a dozen known people that Booth came in contact with over the days of his escape. I got just about a dozen, but I would question how many of those were told how he broke his leg -- people like Swann, Rollins, Thornton, Miss Peyton, and others had no need to know HOW he broke his leg.

Of course, about half a dozen Garretts were under one roof, but did any of them speak about his horse falling on him? Is it mentioned in any of the statements made by people like Samuel Cox? I'm not sure that Mike would do this, but one way to make a point is to exaggerate your statement and pray that others don't call you on it.

[Gene C]

(09-11-2013 08:22 PM)Troy Cowan Wrote:  Gene said, "The guy shot at Garrett's did have on Booth's boot, right?'

No! he had on a pair of boots. When the body was given to the Booth family for burial, the body sewn in the blankets had a boot on each foot.

Wow, that contradicts my source of the underlined book. What is your source? So the dead guy at Garrett's had on Booth's clothes (except for his boots), had Booth's stick pin, photo's of a bunch of Booth's girl friends, Booth's diary, and a few other odds and ends of Booth's, but it wasn't Booth. And Davey never tells anyone any of this, or he did tell, but whoever he told (except for his sisters' ex boy friend) also kept it a secret and never told anyone, not even 30-150 years later. And Lafayette Baker and crew, everyone in the cavalry patrol and working with Stanton also keep it a secret. To many people know to much. Your scenario sounds slightly implausible.

---

But...if the Yanks completely change Boyd's clothes after they shot him with the ones of Booth's (or claim to be Booth's) they brought along with them (that was smart thinking), and they threaten Davey to keep quiet or they will revoke his hunting license for southern MD, it just might work.

I just can't figure out why Booth/Boyd's last words were "Lucy, Lucy"? (Just kidding Laurie, )
- It's all explained in the underlined book. (I've stored it in the freezer for safe keeping)

[wsanto]

(09-12-2013 07:46 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  

(09-11-2013 07:41 PM)wsanto Wrote:  Was Booth lying in his diary? Not really--he was confessing to the murder and making his case. He embellished some small facts but was mostly telling the truth. Why would he lie about breaking his leg in the leap rather than just say he broke his leg later in the escape?

Bill, as you know from previous discussions, I agree with you wholeheartedly. I feel the diary is the best evidence, and I feel the horse fall story is essentially hearsay.

However, that said, I am certainly willing to look at other evidence. Is there evidence we have not yet discussed? I consider Mike Kauffman a punctilious researcher - one of the very best. He writes, "During his escape Booth told about a dozen people he had broken his leg when his horse stumbled and fell on him." I do not think Mike Kauffman would write that unless he could back it up. Personally I can think of only a handful of folks Booth told. Does anyone know of additional statements that we have not yet looked at on the forum? I am curious how Mike gets "about a dozen." Apparently there must be additional accounts I have never seen, and I would like to read exactly what the people had to say.

Roger,

I agree with your view of Mr. Kauffman. I too have great respect for him and his work. I wish I had the time and access to all the documents he reviewed in his diligent research. I would like to not only see more documentation on who Booth told about the horse fall but also another statement from Thomas Davis that confirms Mr. Kauffman's contention that the horse had a "badly swollen left shoulder".

Mr. Kauffman goes into some legnth about how Booth embellished his diary account so I am quite sure he would not embellish his evidence of the horse fall. There must be some documents or statement that back-up his evidence. I just wish I could see them.

Thanks--Bill Carnevali

[Troy Cowan]

Dave asks, " Help me with your timeline, Troy. When did Booth and Boyd supposedly switch places?" Dave, until today I have never heard of the idea that Booth and Boyd deliberately changed places. But, you are asking me, and my answer is--never. Booth and Boyd didn't get-together and decide to switch places.

Going along with this idea, Gene says that the dead man at the Garrett's house had on Booth's clothes. Again, I have never heard anyone say this until today. The dead man on the porch had on Confederate gray trousers and Confederate yellow brogans. He (Boyd) did have many items that belonged to Booth in his possession. Booth was transported from the Lucas farm to the Rappahannock River crossing lying down in a wagon with an improvised false bottom. During the trip many items were lost from Booth's clothing. Later, Boyd was asked to retrieve them and that is why they were in his possession.

Dave, gong back to your original question. At the porch, when Boyd died, Edward Doherty made the switch.

[Dave Taylor]

Alright, I'll restate my question so that you understand what I'm asking. Troy, at what point in the traditional escape route story does Boyd come in? When does David Herold essentially change traveling companions and Where/how does Booth make his escape according to your theory?