RE: Thomas F. Harney
(08-08-2015 10:56 PM)SSlater Wrote: (08-07-2015 04:35 PM)Rick Smith Wrote: Rick:
You misread me. I do not desire Southerners, nor anyone else, to apologize for anything. I merely suggest that in discussions of the causes of the war, in forums such as this, or elsewhere, it should be acknowledged by everyone, irrespective of their region or ancestry, that slavery was the root cause of the war and that talk of states' rights, tariffs, cultural differences, etc., serves only to cloud the issue. The political, social, economic and cultural dimensions are all tied to the institution of slavery, without which there would have been no war, because nothing else was worth fighting about. The causes given by South Carolina and other states for seceding make this perfectly clear.
RICK I missed your question completely. So Sorry!
Your question is perfectly in line. I have been studying that option. Obviously, I don't have an answer - - Yet!
I have been looking closely at what each participant said- very closely. Beginning with Snyder. He was very vague and uninformed. (Also, look at what he didn't say. He didn't say "Blow up the White House." ) Next, I looked at Atzerodt's statement. He said "They are going to Mine the White House." So, who shows up ? Harney. A guy who plants "Mines". That leads me to think, he was going to "Mine" the White House. WHat else? Harney never "Blew up a House'. He was an expert with MINES He was going to plant "subTerras" .The White House lawn was open to the public. The White House Hallways, were open to the public. Some "Favor seekers" slept in the in the hallways. So, Harney didn't have to sneak in through the sewer pipe,- just open the front door and walk in. (This accommodates the plan to go through the "Greenhouse".)
Was he going to "Mine" Lincoln's bedroom door? (That would "Get him Sure".)
The term "Blow up the White House" was generated long after the Civil War, probably in 1907 (+/-) when Ripley's published his book.
Consider, a Mine never blew the bow off a boat, it punches a hole in the side, and the boat sinks. Harney didn't want to blow a hole in the building. he wanted to blow a hole in Lincoln.
These are just ideas. I can defend my proposals easier, than I can be convinced that Harney and a helper or two, could demolish the White House. ( or even part of it.)
John
John,
My apologies for having misread you. I would certainly not want anything I say or write to be misread or mischaracterized and would not wish to do so to you.
Rick
(08-07-2015 04:11 PM)SSlater Wrote: (08-07-2015 03:27 PM)L Verge Wrote: Rick Smith brought me lunch today (Southern gentleman that he is), and we were discussing Harney's mission and a report that Col. Edward Ripley made in his post-war memoirs about his experience on April 4 after setting headquarters in Richmond near the Confederate Torpedo Bureau. I believe that Ripley's unit was the first Union group to occupy the evacuated city.
According to Ripley, he interviewed a Confederate enlisted man who worked at the Torpedo Bureau and wanted to report a strange project at the Bureau. The man's name was William Snyder, and he said that a special mission had been dispatched by Gen. Rains that was aimed at the head of the Yankee government. Snyder wanted Lincoln warned, but could give no further information (names, etc.) because the mission was top secret. Ripley believed Snyder enough to arrange for him to visit Lincoln on board the Malvern in the James River. One hitch - Snyder had to write out his concerns and could not meet face-to-face with the President. Lincoln is said to have dismissed the warning
I believe that Harney's trip began on April 2, so Ripley's story would fit timelines perfectly. Hall, Tidwell, Gaddy, Steers, and others always wanted to find proof to link Harney, Rains, and Booth together. Steers covers this on pages 90-91 of Blood on the Moon. Come Retribution goes into more detail on Harney, Rains, and Snyder on pages 419-421.
Thanx, for these posts. I don't recall them from previous posts. They support my research. nicely. I'm trying to prove that the mission was other than a "Grand Plan". I wonder if there was a "plan" at all?
John,
Could it be, at this point, since Richmond had fallen, that operatives were working on their own initiative and thus, it does become a case of individual missions, as opposed to a grand, or concerted effort?
Rick
So that we are clear, I am asking this question of John Stanton.
(08-07-2015 04:35 PM)Rick Smith Wrote: Rick:
You misread me. I do not desire Southerners, nor anyone else, to apologize for anything. I merely suggest that in discussions of the causes of the war, in forums such as this, or elsewhere, it should be acknowledged by everyone, irrespective of their region or ancestry, that slavery was the root cause of the war and that talk of states' rights, tariffs, cultural differences, etc., serves only to cloud the issue. The political, social, economic and cultural dimensions are all tied to the institution of slavery, without which there would have been no war, because nothing else was worth fighting about. The causes given by South Carolina and other states for seceding make this perfectly clear.
John
John,
My apologies for having misread you. I would certainly not want anything I say or write to be misread or mischaracterized and would not wish to do so to you.
Rick
(08-07-2015 04:11 PM)SSlater Wrote: (08-07-2015 03:27 PM)L Verge Wrote: Rick Smith brought me lunch today (Southern gentleman that he is), and we were discussing Harney's mission and a report that Col. Edward Ripley made in his post-war memoirs about his experience on April 4 after setting headquarters in Richmond near the Confederate Torpedo Bureau. I believe that Ripley's unit was the first Union group to occupy the evacuated city.
According to Ripley, he interviewed a Confederate enlisted man who worked at the Torpedo Bureau and wanted to report a strange project at the Bureau. The man's name was William Snyder, and he said that a special mission had been dispatched by Gen. Rains that was aimed at the head of the Yankee government. Snyder wanted Lincoln warned, but could give no further information (names, etc.) because the mission was top secret. Ripley believed Snyder enough to arrange for him to visit Lincoln on board the Malvern in the James River. One hitch - Snyder had to write out his concerns and could not meet face-to-face with the President. Lincoln is said to have dismissed the warning
I believe that Harney's trip began on April 2, so Ripley's story would fit timelines perfectly. Hall, Tidwell, Gaddy, Steers, and others always wanted to find proof to link Harney, Rains, and Booth together. Steers covers this on pages 90-91 of Blood on the Moon. Come Retribution goes into more detail on Harney, Rains, and Snyder on pages 419-421.
Thanx, for these posts. I don't recall them from previous posts. They support my research. nicely. I'm trying to prove that the mission was other than a "Grand Plan". I wonder if there was a "plan" at all?
John,
Could it be, at this point, since Richmond had fallen, that operatives were working on their own initiative and thus, it does become a case of individual missions, as opposed to a grand, or concerted effort?
Rick
So that we are clear, I am asking this question of John Stanton.
And the lunch was my pleasure, Miss Laurie.
Rick I have answered your question, but it was posted as part of Post #129. You would never have found it , in this messy thread.
John,
Thanks for that answer. Your point about using sub terra torpedoes is a good one; and that there was no need to slip through the sewer to enter the Executive Mansion; just walk right in. Harney was a member of the Torpedo Bureau, so you may be on the right track here. If he was planning on planting sub terra shells in different areas, it seems that his mission would have been ongoing and taken some time to complete. Harney's story has always fascinated me. Former Lt. in a Kentucky cavalry regiment, I think.
Rick
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