Did Lincoln Regret Marrying Mary?

[Eva Elisabeth]

(12-14-2013 12:07 PM)Mike B. Wrote:  I know differences on Mary emotions run high.
I am not trying to pick fights. If you are not convinced by me, I am OK with that.
I am also aware of Mary's very positive qualities, she was without doubt very intelligent, well educated, witty, a good writer, and very muched loved her children and her husband. I am also convinced some of her faults lay with psychological problems beyond her control as per Dr. James Brust. I just think the evidence that she was a major reason he was President isn't very strong and consists mostly of some ex post facto opinions and some misunderstandings of Lincoln like from Edward Evertt.

Mike, I totally agree on all this, especially on your introducing passage! Thanks for these words! Again, I didn't declare Mary's influence as a major reason A. Lincoln became president, but as a positive support and backing. Allow me - regarding the many different arguments - to remark that the question of the extent of Mary's possible share in her husband's rise to power makes a seperate discussion within the original discussion whether A. Lincoln regretted his marriage.

There is no evidence to prove the Lincolns' feelings towards each other and their marriage, only hints at which we can look this or that way and draw our personal conclusions (on a very private issue between two people, just to keep in mind!). Since there is no proof, I'm in favor of "in dubio pro reo", people are so various and different regarding what they feel and suffer from. And arguing the available hints against Mary as the "hellcat" IMO means also arguing in favor of Abraham Lincoln, who sometimes seems to be presented as the poor, passive, quietly suffering victim. I think he was anything but that.

(12-14-2013 09:59 AM)Mike B. Wrote:  Mary hurt Lincoln's career than in the short-term because by marrying her, he lost an almost certain Whig nomination to Congress in 1844, because he was now the "candidate of wealth, pride, and aristorcratic institution

Mike, this is an excellent argument from A. Lincoln's point of view!!! Still Laurie's (as I assume) and my focus solely concerned Mary's point of view and her possibly foreseeable future cut backs at the very point in time when she made her decision for this marriage, which, I think (having no proof) both the Lincolns intended as a lifelong one.

(12-14-2013 09:59 AM)Mike B. Wrote:  There is a internal contradiction in all this. If Mary was smart enough as the writing goes that she recognized his potential, how can we then say it wasn't clear at the time he would be successful?

I don't see an internal contradiction here. Having potential doesn't guarantee being successful. To take it to the top: When do you think was it clear A. Lincoln would become president? If you had asked William Seward on the morning of the election day he would sure have said never...

(12-14-2013 09:59 AM)Mike B. Wrote:  As far as the line behind about a great man having a great woman behind them, it is not a universal truth.

That's why I said "often". My main intention was to ackowledge what wifes of men in such demanding positions often do in disguise behind the stage (giving emotinal support, or e.g. fulfilling social and representative duties), and what they often have to bear with dignity (e.g. public gossip) rather that saying to be married it is a necessary requirement for success or achievement. I don't try to word it another way to make it fit somehow. You are correct, the phrase is not a universal truth.

As for Einstein, he did not only divorce his wife, he also disowned and even refused to see their daughter Liserl (Elisabeth), who suffered from the Down Syndrome, because he feared it would damage his career if her existence became public. Later he wasn't much in favor of his second marriage, too.