Things Lincoln never said

[Mike B.]

(09-25-2012 07:47 PM)LincolnMan Wrote:  Not sure if the following quote should go under the thread "Things Lincoln never said" or not. I'm reading from the book my wife bought for me in Northern Michigan-Abraham Lincoln's Stories And Speeches by J.B. McClure, dated 1896. It gives no sources at all. On page 108 of the book, Lincoln is talking to a Mr. Newton Bateman. See what you think. Here is what Lincoln is supposed to have said:

"I know there is a God,and that he hates injustice and slavery. I see the storm coming, and I know that His hand is in it. If He has a place and work for me, and I think He has, I believe I am ready. I am nothing, but truth is everything: I know I am right, because I know that liberty is right, for Christ teaches it, and Christ is God. I have told them that a house divided against itself can not stand; and Christ and Reason say the same; and they will find it so."


That doesn't sound like Lincoln to me. It also doesn't express his ideas as I've come to understand he held. But what do you think?

Bill,
I write about that quote in my own book on Lincoln's religion. The source of it was Josiah Holland's biography on Abraham Lincoln published shortly after Lincoln's death. It is the first major biography and an important one.

Here is some background on that.
Josiah Holland was a very religious man. He taught Sunday School and asked Herndon about Lincoln's religion. Herndon replied, "The less said about that the better," and Holland replied with a wink, "O never mind, I'll fix that."

Herndon asked Bateman exactly what he remembered Lincoln saying and Bateman was somewhat evasive. Isaac Arnold, a Lincoln friend of Lincoln who was writing his own biography wrote Herndon after writing to Bateman, "In regard to Mr Bateman he does not stand up very squarely."

So is the story then made up?
No. The context of the quote is Lincoln talking to Bateman about how disgusted he was with pro-slavery theology, and talked about how many ministers in Springfield didn't support him.

We know Lincoln had a particular dislike for people who made religious arguments about slavery being a good thing. Later as President he wrote the following and referred to himself in the third person to be published in a newspaper:

"THE PRESIDENT'S LAST, SHORTEST, AND BEST SPEECH.

On thursday of last week two ladies from Tennessee came before the President asking the release of their husbands held as prisoners
of war at Johnson's Island. They were put off till friday, when they came again; and were again put off to saturday. At each of the interviews one of the ladies urged that her husband was a religious man. On saturday the President ordered the release of the prisoners, and then said to this lady ``You say your husband is a religious man; tell him when you meet him, that I say I am not much of a judge of religion, but that, in my opinion, the religion that sets men to rebel and fight against their government, because, as they think, that government does not sufficiently help some men to eat their bread on the sweat of other men's faces, is not the sort of religion upon which people can get to heaven!''

So I think Lincoln did talk to Bateman about this and mentioned God's help he felt he would need which he was to do on the train platform as he left Springfield shortly afterwards publically. The "Christ is God" seems to be a gloss that either Bateman or Holland added to the story to make Lincoln a more orthodox Christian.