Grant and Lincoln's invitation

[Linda Anderson]

(10-12-2014 04:11 AM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:  Catherine Clinton (p. 361/62 of "Mrs. Lincoln") respectively Fanny Seward writes about this incident:
"The diary of Fanny Seward (Sept.9, 1861) records that the Seward women came to pay a call on Mrs. Lincoln at the White House. The group were seated, then told Mrs. L. was 'very much engaged,' so they filed out, but 'the truth of Mrs. L's engagement was probably that she did not want to see Mother - else why not give general direction to the doorkeeper to let no one in? It was certainly very rude to have us all seated first...' Fanny was extremely annoyed but goes on to compliment Mrs. Lincoln for begging for life of a soldier. "

My questions:
- Does "came to pay a call" mean they were invited and/or expected, or did they come unexpectedly? (What does "they filed out" mean?)
- What real evidence was there that "probably..she did not want to see Mother"? Lacking "general direction to the doorkeeper to let no one in" alone is IMO a too weak argument. Also why should Mary have them seated when she knew she didn't want to see them? To haze them? Maybe, if they came along unexpectedly, Mary indeed first intended to make up time for them but her schedule had already been too full and all became too much?
- Did Mary ask to excuse she turned the Seward ladies away? Linda, do you perhaps know more details on the incident?

Catherine Clinton suspects: "Perhaps Mrs. Lincoln was engaged in trying to deal with the rumors of the scandal and corruption that were raging around her renovations of the White House, which she discovered upon her arrival back in Washington on Sept.5. It is also true that she repeatedly blamed Seward for circulating stories against her. In addition, missing callers was a common hazard, as Mrs. Seward reported the same week: 'Sept.8, 1861, Mrs. Bates Called last week - I did not see her.'"

Before that incident, on her way to Niagara Falls in August, Mary had payed a call on Frances Seward in Auburn, and W. Seward had accompanied her and her sons from Albany to his home. Linda, do you (or does anyone else) know what the Seward women thought of her and her behavior/feelings towards them then?

Eva, I don't know what Mrs. Seward thought of Mrs. Lincoln. Fanny was not writing in her diary when Mrs. Lincoln visited the Sewards in Auburn in 1861. "File out" to me has the connotation of the Sewards being dismissed like they were school children.

Here's Fanny's description of the Sewards' visit to the White House on Sept. 9, 1861. If Fanny was that annoyed, then there must have been good reason for it.

"After dinner according to our previous plans we went to call on Mrs Lincoln - Mr. Nicolay came to call - and went back with us - we were shown by Edward into the blue and gold room - and all seated - quite a party to be sure - Edward drew a chair for Mrs. L. & one or two extra ones & went to tell her [?] - Father told him to tell the boys he wanted to see the cats - Well there we sat - Father, Mother, Major De Courcy, Mr. Nicolay - Fred, Anna, Jenny and I - after a lapse of some time the usher came and said Mrs. Lincoln begged to be excused, she was very much engaged - (men. the only time on record that she ever refused to see company in the evening - she generally sits in state, Anna found her & Mrs. Grimsley the former in pink tarleton and the latter in yellow - ball dresses, for chance callers once). So we filed out & Edward put those of us that drove into the carriage & told Father that the boys could find but one kitten & would not come without the other - & said "tell the Governer [sic] to wait and we'll come-" So off we came. While in the house we heard the loud merry laughter of the first children that have been in the White House in many years, echoing through its halls - The truth of Mrs. L'.s engagement was probably that she did not want to see Mother - else why not give general directions to the doorkeeper to let no one in? it was certainly very rude to have us all seated first - however Ms. L. & [sic] begged for the life of the soldier sentenced to death for sleeping at his post, and Mr L too was humane in the matter."

Sensitivity and Civil War: The Selected Diaries and Papers, 1858-1866, of Frances Adeline (Fanny) Seward, Patricia Johnson

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(10-12-2014 05:20 PM)loetar44 Wrote:  

(10-12-2014 03:04 PM)Linda Anderson Wrote:  Kees, I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. Do you mean to say that I am being unfair to Mary when I say that she had control over how she chose to react to situations? Are you saying that she had no control over her actions then?

Linda,

Sorry that I was not really clear, but let me better explain what I ment to say. We all face negative situations in our life. And in most cases you are completely right, you can keep your response under control and if you cannot you can train a better behavior. However there are situations where it is extremely difficult to keep a positive attitude. That’s why I gave –see my response to Laurie- as example how I reacted in an extreme negative situation, when I lost my twin and was literally torn by grief, because that was for me personally a situation in which I had not myself under control, during more than a year. I personally thought that there was nothing wrong with me and that I had given the loss of my brother a certain place in my life and that I could carry on. I really thought that I acted as normal as I always did. But subconsciously I reacted totally different to all kind of situations, especially negative situations. In fact I had no control over my response, only I did not know or see that. I also said that my grief was “nothing” compared with the grief Mary Lincoln had to endure. That was "in extremo". If I had no total control over my response, I suspect that it was extremely harder for Mary to overcome all kind of negative situations, because response out of emotion (which will only make it all worse) is (and I speak out of my own experience) in particular in case of grief only clearly visible to others. The circumstances made it that Mary was (feeded by her subconscious brain) out of her control. I needed help to realize that and after that I could continue with my life. Nobody blamed me. But who helped Mary? That’s why I wrote that it is not fair to blame Mary. It’s still my opinion that Mary could not in all circumstances always decide how she wanted to react.

Kees, I am so sorry about the loss of your brother. I think we are talking about two separate things. I wasn't talking about Mary Lincoln after the assassination but the Mary Lincoln who snubbed the Sewards and who spent too much money on furnishings for the White House.

I posted the following on the thread "Lincoln Letter to John Stuart." Ribbons and dresses may seem like insignificant matters but it shows how Mary had to get her own way.

Julia Taft Bayne wrote about an incident involving Mrs. Lincoln in Bayne's book Tad Lincoln's Father. Julia was the half sister of Charles Sabin Taft who attended Lincoln after he was shot in Ford's Theater. She knew the Lincolns well as she and her younger brothers, Bud and Holly, were friends of the Lincoln boys.

Julia's mother had a hat made by Willian, the "fashionable milliner on Pennsylvania Ave where everybody who was anybody went for bonnets, also dresses." One day in the spring of 1861, Julia noticed that Mrs. Lincoln was looking intently at Mrs. Bayne's bonnet, then speaking with her. Julia was "a bit puzzled by the look of amazement on my mother's face." Julia found out later at dinner that Mrs. Lincoln had requested the bonnet strings on Mrs. Bayne's bonnet because Willian had trimmed Mrs. Lincoln's "bonnet with this same ribbon but is unable to get enough for the strings." Mr. Bayne asked what she would do. "Well," answered my mother, "I suppose I'll have to let her have it and it's provoking, for I really did like this bonnet." Willian came to the rescue.

"That day when the dress was being fitted I
heard Willian say to my mother, 'You is
veree kind, Mrs. Taft. The Madame she
want only that ribbon, not any other. If you
give up ze strings, I retrim ze bonnet with
lavender ribbon so it will be complete.' So
Willian sent for my mother's bonnet and in
a few days it came back, more beautiful than
at first, but now trimmed with lavender
white-embroidered ribbon instead of purple.

"There was a story by Miss Cleveland in
the American Magazine some time ago of a
Springfield merchant who had brought some
patterns of organdy from the city and sent
word to Mrs. Lincoln to select some before
they were put on sale.
"Mrs. Lincoln, accordingly, selected several
but when she saw the one the merchant
had chosen for his wife (they were neighbors)
she wanted that one and threatened to
return all the other patterns she had selected
unless she could have it. And the merchant's
wife had to give up her pattern and take
another.
"This illustrates the same trait as my story
of the bonnet strings. It was an outstanding
characteristic of Mary Todd Lincoln that
she wanted what she wanted when she
wanted it and no substitute! And as far as
we know, she always had it, including a
President of the United States."

Tad Lincoln's Father is available on Internet Archive.org

http://archive.org/details/tadlincolnsfathe00bayn