What did Lincoln read?

[L Verge]

(05-20-2014 03:11 PM)Liz Rosenthal Wrote:  

(05-20-2014 11:29 AM)L Verge Wrote:  "It's possible also that people, including Lincoln, were generally aware of Jefferson's sexual escapades with some of his slaves. Admittedly, such things were rather common amongst the slaveowners, but perhaps this amoral conduct really stuck in one's craw when the person engaging in it publicly represented himself as a great humanitarian and forward-looking thinker."

Taking the slavery issue out of the picture, I wonder what Mr. Lincoln thinks now from the great beyond about the sexual escapades of quite a few Presidents while in the highest office in the land? Talk about immoral and detrimental to the country...

I'd say that the general topic of sexual escapades of married U.S. presidents is kind of irrelevant to what we're discussing. When I mentioned the *amorality* of Jefferson's conduct vis-à-vis his slaves, I was not referring necessarily to the extramarital nature of the conduct, but the conduct of a slaveowner who imposes himself sexually on his slaves, where, by the very nature of their status as slaves, they have no power to say "no," nowhere to go to get away from further advances by the slaveowner, and no one to turn to for protection or assistance. Moreover, in imposing himself sexually on a slave, the slaveowner was almost certainly causing the slave's pregnancy, thus creating a new slave in the process - another human being by whom the slaveowner would profit, and whose status would forever be labeled as mere property, with no rights whatsoever. Even if Jefferson had been a bachelor, this problem would have remained. His personal conduct in taking advantage of his slaves sexually, and the conduct of thousands of other slaveowners in doing the same, was detrimental to the millions of slaves subject to their owners, detrimental to the health and well-being of society in general, and detrimental to the professed belief in the United States of America as a "free country."

The reason that Jefferson's conduct was a particular problem here, and one probable reason why Lincoln had disdain for Jefferson as a person, was that Jefferson was among the greatest proponents of his time of republicanism, and freedom of thought, expression, religion and all the rest, and on top of that, was anti-slavery in his views... while behaving abominably in private. Also, Jefferson's later change of heart about the need to place slavery on a path to extinction may have been somewhat opportunistic on his part and quite disillusioning for an idealist like Lincoln. And, thus, we return to the topic of this thread, which is "What Lincoln Read," and, by extension, whom he admired, and why or why not.

How widespread was the knowledge of Jefferson's liaison with his slave, the half-sister of his deceased wife, in the era before Lincoln became a political figure? Judging by the shock and awe that Fawn Brodie brought on in the 1970s or so with her book, I assumed it was a fairly well-kept secret - if it truly existed. I know that the topic was mentioned during Jefferson's Presidency by a political foe, James Callender, and got some exposure before Lincoln was born. It again was brought up in the mid-1850s by the rabid abolitionists as well as some of the British press. But how much of this was absorbed by Lincoln? What words do we have to show that he spoke out against Jefferson's private life?

I realize that all discussions with you, Liz, have to concern the slavery issues or they are not relevant, but how did Lincoln learn of Jefferson and Sally Hemings in order to be able to sit in judgment?