How I see John Surratt.

[SSlater]

(08-22-2018 06:02 PM)L Verge Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 02:47 PM)SSlater Wrote:  

(08-21-2018 03:43 PM)Steve Wrote:  

(08-21-2018 10:12 AM)HerbS Wrote:  John Surratt was very slick and a snake[in my opinion]! I can prove that he was in Canandaigua,NY and he went to Easter Mass there-then onto Montreal and the ST.Lawrence Hotel!My question is-who helped him?

Herb, are there any photos/images of the Webster House register that Surratt signed (which includes the signatures of the people who signed before and after him)? According to newspaper accounts in the 1950's, the register was supposedly taken to a government archive after the Surratt trial, but I can't seem to locate it now. But surely (hopefully), somebody would've made an image of it?

Steve. You asked -"Who helped him?." Allow me a "studied-guess".
It was Gen. E. G. Lee. Lee was sent to Canada very late in the war. Why? The South wanted someone with authority up there, a military man, to run that end of the line. At this late date, the plans for Lincoln had changed , and they sent Harney to "Blow up the White House". (You know how that worked out). Surratt and Slater had no part it that plan, so, he "put them on the shelf" - without telling them why. As you know, nothing was ever done with Surratt's and Slater's study of Elmira. (That was a "don't bother me now" assignment, I'm busy.)
Another thought, along that same line. Were Surratt and Slater (two of the top Confederate Agents.) were sent on a "mission". to draw Union Agents out of Montreal, and away from the "White House" plan?

I agree with you, John, that Gen. E.G. Lee became Surratt's handler and direct supervisor in Canada. As for the surveillance of the POW camp at Hellmira, do you think that the ultimate plan might have been to stage a prison break that would draw the feds out of Canada and take the heat off the Confederate agents operating out of Montreal? What about utilizing that break to recruit the many Copperheads in upper New York and across the Northwest to continue the fight?

After the assassination, Surratt got a great deal of support from the Catholic Church - which is not unusual, since most old-line denominations would offer sanctuary, especially if the death penalty was on the table if the fugitive were apprehended.

All you say is true, but we will never know - the war ended. I do remember reading about the Rebs had a plan to build an Army, in Canada, or close to it, and open a front up there, using escaped prisoners, and new recruits, but they never got a chance.
As for "assistance from the Catholic Church", I am a Catholic and I don't know any rules that support a crime. The Church would definitely encourage repentance for the killing. He probably convinced the Priest that he was being pursued for being a Reb. From my own experience, when I went into the Navy, we were instructed that it was not sinful to kill the enemy. Maybe he convinced the Priest that he shot in self-defense.

[RJNorton]

(08-22-2018 07:02 PM)Steve Wrote:  Is there any independent evidence for Surratt sending this telegram, apart from his speech?

Personally, I have never seen any evidence. As far as I know, all we have is Surratt's word on this.

[L Verge]

(08-22-2018 08:15 PM)SSlater Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 06:02 PM)L Verge Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 02:47 PM)SSlater Wrote:  

(08-21-2018 03:43 PM)Steve Wrote:  

(08-21-2018 10:12 AM)HerbS Wrote:  John Surratt was very slick and a snake[in my opinion]! I can prove that he was in Canandaigua,NY and he went to Easter Mass there-then onto Montreal and the ST.Lawrence Hotel!My question is-who helped him?

Herb, are there any photos/images of the Webster House register that Surratt signed (which includes the signatures of the people who signed before and after him)? According to newspaper accounts in the 1950's, the register was supposedly taken to a government archive after the Surratt trial, but I can't seem to locate it now. But surely (hopefully), somebody would've made an image of it?

Steve. You asked -"Who helped him?." Allow me a "studied-guess".
It was Gen. E. G. Lee. Lee was sent to Canada very late in the war. Why? The South wanted someone with authority up there, a military man, to run that end of the line. At this late date, the plans for Lincoln had changed , and they sent Harney to "Blow up the White House". (You know how that worked out). Surratt and Slater had no part it that plan, so, he "put them on the shelf" - without telling them why. As you know, nothing was ever done with Surratt's and Slater's study of Elmira. (That was a "don't bother me now" assignment, I'm busy.)
Another thought, along that same line. Were Surratt and Slater (two of the top Confederate Agents.) were sent on a "mission". to draw Union Agents out of Montreal, and away from the "White House" plan?

I agree with you, John, that Gen. E.G. Lee became Surratt's handler and direct supervisor in Canada. As for the surveillance of the POW camp at Hellmira, do you think that the ultimate plan might have been to stage a prison break that would draw the feds out of Canada and take the heat off the Confederate agents operating out of Montreal? What about utilizing that break to recruit the many Copperheads in upper New York and across the Northwest to continue the fight?

After the assassination, Surratt got a great deal of support from the Catholic Church - which is not unusual, since most old-line denominations would offer sanctuary, especially if the death penalty was on the table if the fugitive were apprehended.

All you say is true, but we will never know - the war ended. I do remember reading about the Rebs had a plan to build an Army, in Canada, or close to it, and open a front up there, using escaped prisoners, and new recruits, but they never got a chance.
As for "assistance from the Catholic Church", I am a Catholic and I don't know any rules that support a crime. The Church would definitely encourage repentance for the killing. He probably convinced the Priest that he was being pursued for being a Reb. From my own experience, when I went into the Navy, we were instructed that it was not sinful to kill the enemy. Maybe he convinced the Priest that he shot in self-defense.

There definitely were plans for a great Northwest Conspiracy, and I believe that Confederate agent Thomas Hines was a chief mover and shaker in that. However, the plan never got the support from the civilian Copperhead residents of that area.

From what I can gather, it was an ancient practice for criminals to seek sanctuary in churches up to the Reformation. The custom continued, but was not widely practiced in cases where major crimes (murder, treason, rape, etc.) were concerned -- even though the sanctuary concept remained in the Canons of the Catholic Church until 1983. Anglicans, Lutherans, and Methodists had canceled it centuries ago. Churches are still considered sanctuaries today, especially in the immigration issues, but law enforcement has the right to enter the church and arrest if directed to do so by superiors.

[L Verge]

As I mentioned previously, Fred Hatch's book on John Surratt is the most detailed account that you can ask for - yet easy to read. I'd like to share two portions with you.

Since May 1, 1976, when three of Surratt's grandsons cut the ribbon to officially open Surratt House as a public museum, I have talked with descendants as to what happened to the manuscript that Surratt had written. All that anyone would say was that he burned it before his death because there were still folks alive who had been involved in the conspiracy, and he did not want to taint their names and reputations.

Fred gives a much more detailed description, however, as to how and what was burned. My one complaint is that he does not give a source for these details: "In John's final years, his son William encouraged him to write down the story of his early life. As articles and purported interviews about him were appearing in the press, John finally agreed and set down an account of his experiences. William sent the manuscript to McClure's magazine, but received a reply from an unsympathetic editor, 'I doubt that anyone would be interested in anything Mr. Surratt has to say.' [If that man only knew...] With that rejection, John Surratt decided to destroy the manuscript. The manuscript, along with letters from Father LaPierre, Stephen F. Cameron, Roswell S. Ripley, Harry H. Brogdon, Joseph Bradley, Richard Merrick, John W. Clampitt, and others from private individuals were burned in the backyard of the Surratt home [1016 West Lanvale Street in Baltimore]. Other items burned reportedly included a document commissioning Surratt into the Confederate Secret Service signed by Jefferson Davis and numerous newspaper clippings, including one that quoted Edward C. Carrington - who had prosecuted Surratt - as acknowledging that John had been in Elmira, New York, on the day of the assassination, and that Carrington had had doubts about John's guilt during his trial. Another letter was to John R. Sherwood threatening to terminate U.S. Mail contracts with the Old Bay Line if they employed Surratt, which Sherwood, a Union veteran, had refused to heed. Also into the fire went the original manuscript of Surratt's [Rockville] lecture, the contents of which had been taken down at the time and thus became one of the very few documents from John H. Surratt, Jr., to have survived until that day."

One more interesting detail from the book and then I'll stop taking up space: In the 1880 Federal Census in Baltimore, John Surratt was living at 161 North Calvert Street with his wife and four children, his brother Isaac, his wife's sister, six boarders, and a male servant (for a total of 15 inhabitants in one house!). That either had to be one large house or the inhabitants did not mind a little "togetherness." They lived there for thirteen years, during which the Surratts had three more children.