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BettyO · 10-14-2012, 04:54 PM

I have discovered over the past several months that death certificates were NOT issued in certain regions until the middle of the 1870s - some were issued in the 1850s (Virginia is one state) and others were issued in the 1860s..... it varied from state to state when Death Certificates were actually recorded as legal documents -

Jim Garrett · 10-14-2012, 04:57 PM

(10-14-2012 04:37 PM)JMadonna Wrote:
(10-14-2012 04:28 PM)Jim Garrett Wrote:
(10-14-2012 01:28 PM)JMadonna Wrote:
(10-14-2012 12:42 PM)Jim Garrett Wrote: Looking at a map and the Wiki of Grand Haven, I'm not really surpised that there is no death certificate. Grand Haven has a population of about 10,000 today. It was incorporated in 1867. I can't imagine the 1900 population was more than 5,000. It is also conveniently located near........not much. Often when a death is not mysterious or unusual, a coroner will not be involved. Often a local funeral director would sign off on a death certificate. I would say that since it was the mayor of Grand Haven reporting the deaths that were obviously from drowning, and that they were out-of-towners, heck, why bother with all the paperwork.

Jim,
Grand Haven was a busy port town at the time. Michigan lumber was building Chicago back then.

Why do you assume that Cobb was an out of towner? His pre-war occupation was a boot-maker. Singer sewing machines made that occupation practically obsolete during the war. He could just as easily been working in the logging or shipping trade. His death certificate would tell us that.

I don't care if it was the job of a doctor, coroner or mayor to sign-off on a death certificate, if you want to transfer a dead body across state lines that is a necessary piece of paperwork.

The second of the clippings on BoothieBarn says that two men were from Hollister, Ma and two were from Portland. Today you need a death certificate to remove a body across state lines. But, what was protocal 150 years ago? Did Edwin Booth need a death certificate to remove John Wilkes to Baltimore? Did John Atzerodt need one to remove George? I thinks it may be safer to assume that back then, you didn't need a death certificate than needing one.
Never assume Jim. The law was in effect.

Why do you assume that the goverment refused to give a certificate to Edwin Booth and John Atzerodt?

I'm not assuming that the government did or didn't provide anything to the next of kin of the assassins. I would love to see the death certificate of JWB. He died in Virginia, never heard of Dr. Urquhart issuing a death certificate. I would really love to see a death certificate for JWB or any of the conspirators. I have to plead ignorance as to the protocal for death certificates in 1867 Michigan. I also know from personal experience, that vital paperwork does get misplaced, misfiled, dissappears, or is never generated. There's lots of what ifs.

Rsmyth · 10-14-2012, 08:21 PM

In my search for final resting places I have encountered many burials that did not involve a death certificate but only recorded at the local church of the deceased.

JMadonna · 10-14-2012, 08:49 PM

(10-14-2012 08:21 PM)Rsmyth Wrote: In my search for final resting places I have encountered many burials that did not involve a death certificate but only recorded at the local church of the deceased.

Did any of those bodies cross state lines?

BettyO · 10-14-2012, 09:34 PM

I have at least one instance where a body was issued a death certificate and then transported across state lines for burial in another state -

John Stanton · 10-14-2012, 10:21 PM

I have had my own confusing experiences with Vital Records. No two States work the same way, nor have they done it the same way over the years. I do not question IF there was a Certif. I question WHERE is it? The City, or Town may have it, maybe - the County, _ maybe the State has it. (Don't assume that each of these entities talk to one another). Wharever is true today, may not apply to 150 years ago. Don't quit looking. You may find the the Counties changed their borders over the years. (My home in PA is located in a recently created County.) Have I made my point? Also, Did they spell the name correctly? Did they use a name you are not familiar with? (Such as a Nick name, or a name that he dropped because he didn't like it?

JMadonna · 10-15-2012, 08:16 AM

John and Betty,

After reading your posts it occurred to me that the source of the newspaper articles most probably came from some sort of official records. Jackson is quite a distance from Grand Haven, so the event would have to have been recorded somewhere for the newspaper to publish it.

Thanks for your input. You've given me a new lead.

Laurie Verge · 10-17-2012, 01:20 PM

Jerry,

A search of the James O. Hall files only had this:

According to a “Necrology of the soldiers from Holliston who served in the war for the Union. Taken from Army records and other authentic dates.” from an unknown source, Silas Cobb died Nov. 9th 1867 at Grand Haven, Mich. When Mr. Hall could not locate any records for him in Michigan, he tried the Holliston Historical Society in Massachusetts. Sgt. Cobb’s grave was located in Central Cemetery and a photo taken of his gravestone which reads Silas T. Cobb, Sgt. Co. F 3rd Mass., 1838-1867. Unfortunately, that appears to be all that the files contain about the demise of Sgt. Cobb.

Gene C · 10-17-2012, 01:42 PM

So i guess we can resonably assume that he realy is dead, even if we can't find the papers to prove it?

Jim Garrett · 10-17-2012, 05:34 PM

(10-17-2012 01:42 PM)Gene C Wrote: So i guess we can resonably assume that he realy is dead, even if we can't find the papers to prove it?

Gene, your jumping to conclusions. While there is a strong possibility he is, in fact deceased, there is no.............................. Cool

JMadonna · 10-17-2012, 06:59 PM

Thanks Laurie,
I went through Dr. Hall's files, I guess Sandra didn't find anything more.
All I can say is that Cobb's accidental death came at a very opportune time for Andrew Johnson.

Rsmyth · 10-17-2012, 08:19 PM

Jerry, what is the link between Cobb's death and a supposed conspiracy?

Gene C · (This post was last modified: 10-17-2012 10:04 PM by Gene C.)

(10-17-2012 05:34 PM)Jim Garrett Wrote: Gene, your jumping to conclusions. While there is a strong possibility he is, in fact deceased, there is no..............................

Thanks Jim, I guess I got a little to eager and jumped the gun. I'm just an amateur here, thrilled to learn from the best. Thanks for the fatherly wisdom.

RJNorton · (This post was last modified: 10-18-2012 03:59 AM by RJNorton.)

(10-17-2012 06:59 PM)JMadonna Wrote: All I can say is that Cobb's accidental death came at a very opportune time for Andrew Johnson.

Is this because Cobb knew the truth on the passes out of Washington that Johnson wrote for both Booth and Herold? Or do you mean something else?

JMadonna · 10-18-2012, 07:36 AM

(10-18-2012 03:51 AM)RJNorton Wrote:
(10-17-2012 06:59 PM)JMadonna Wrote: All I can say is that Cobb's accidental death came at a very opportune time for Andrew Johnson.

Is this because Cobb knew the truth on the passes out of Washington that Johnson wrote for both Booth and Herold? Or do you mean something else?

It's because Cobb knew the truth and Johnson was facing impeachment charges. If the Republicans could have found Cobb, history would have been different.