Thomas F. Harney

[SSlater]

(08-03-2015 07:35 PM)Gene C Wrote:  John, this is from the book "This Awful Drama" p. 152

"Apparently some disagreement arose between Edwin and Jacob Thompson concerning authority and the amount of money the Confederate government intended the latter to turn over to Edwin. After Edwin handed Thompson a memorandum concerning the funds, Thompson answered on April 9:
Last evening I estimated that I would return $30,000 until you could hear from Mr. Benjamin. On second thought, however, I am unwilling to consent to this arrangement because it will hamper my movements and might prevent me from availing myself a favorable opportunity of returning home - in other words, when I lave here I intend to be a free man.

Two days later Thompson, accompanied by his secretary, Will Cleary, left for Halifax."

(footnote for Thompson's reply; "Copied letter in manuscript book of unknown person, p30, Confederate Museum"

and on p. 157
"In the meantime, Jacob Thompson and his secretary Will Cleary, had reached Riviere du Loup when they learned of Lincoln's assassination. The electrifying news gave them pause. Bad weather then detained Thompson until late spring when he sailed from Halifax for Europe, carrying with him some 12,000 pounds of Confederate funds. Cleary decided to turn back and lived out the rest of the year in Canada.
(footnote - Biographical Directory of the American Congress, 1774-1971, 1810: Thomas "traveled throughout Europe in 1866 and 1867; settled in Memphis, Tenn., and managed the affairs of his extensive holdings; died in Memphis, March 24, 1885"

A little bit more later, I don't like to write long posts.

I will wait until you finish your post, and add my two cents.
I have a copy of the letter that Benjamin wrote, that directed Thompson - How to disperse the "treasury". Most of the money was to be deposited in Benjamin's personal Account, in England. Thompson gets receipts for the money. (He kept "Adequate funds to be able to return home.") Some of Thompson's delay in leaving Canada was - he was waiting for his wife to arrive from Mississippi.
PS When Benjamin escaped, after the war, his first stop -before he went to see his wife - was the bank in England".

[L Verge]

John Stanton and Bill Richter can probably answer this better than I. I know that there are a few bios done on Benjamin, but I admit to not having read them -- even though I have suspected for lo these many years that the man is key to understanding any theory that the Confederacy was behind at least early kidnap ideas regarding Lincoln. This was one of the challenges that I gave to John Fazio about 3-4 years ago; please prove it for me. I used to get tired of hearing people accuse Stanton of being the mastermind behind the assassination. I would tell them to turn around and look South for the culprit.

If my knees would work, I'd like to spend some retirement years researching the money trail of Judah Benjamin also. I doubt we will ever find a definite paper trail because I think the man was a genius at secretive work. If nothing else, I would think that his wife's reputation would keep him very aware of covering up things that could be used against him...

[Wild Bill]

Considering that he destroyed most of his personal and political papers, there has been a lot of work done on Benjamin, a testimony to this interesting character and his importance to attempting to achieve Rebel independence. He was the only person to serve in three positions under Jefferson Davis: Attorney General (February 25, 1861), Secretary of War (September 17, 1861), and Secretary of State (February 22, 1862). See Pierce Butler, Judah P. Benjamin (Philadelphia: George W. Jacobs & Company, 1906), good for its quotes of old letters and documents; Robert Douthat Meade, Judah P. Benjamin: Confederate Statesman (New York: Oxford University Press, 1943), which set a new standard for its time; Simon I. Niemon, Judah Benjamin (Indianapolis: Bobbs-Merrill, 1963); Martin Rywell, Judah Benjamin: Unsung Rebel Prince (Asheville, N.C.: Stephens Press, 1948), short, but poignant; and Eli N. Evans, Judah P. Benjamin: The Jewish Confederate (New York: The Free Press, 1988), by far the best of the lot, who examines his subject from the viewpoint of being a Jew, a Southerner, an American, and a cosmopolitan citizen of the western world. None of them see Benjamin as a conspirator against Lincoln's person, in any way, shape or form.
There are numerous shorter essays on Benjamin's role in the Confederacy, but the best for our purposes are Hudson Strode, “Judah P. Benjamin’s Loyalty to Jefferson Davis,” Georgia Review, 20 (1966), 251-60, the title of which reveals Benjamin's key to Davis' trust; Robert Douthat Meade, "Judah P. Benjamin," Civil War Times Illustrated, 10 (June 1971), 10-20, a good general survey; Meade, "The Relations between Judah P. Benjamin and Jefferson Davis," Journal of Southern History, 5 (1939), 468-78; and Eli N. Evans, "In Search of Judah P. Benjamin," in Evans, The Lonely Days Were Sundays (Jackson: University Press of Mississippi, 1993), 17-34, a moving essay, actually an interview of author Evans, which places Judaism in its Southern context.

[Gene C]

An interesting thing about Benjamin according to Eli Evans, as close as Davis and Benjamin were during the war (and they very close) Davis rarely mentions him in his writings after the war. Especially Davis's book, "Rise and Fall of the Confederate Government" (In the index, Benjamin is listed on three pages in volume 1, and only once in volume 2. That's over 1,000 pages).
https://archive.org/stream/risefallofcon...6/mode/2up

[Rick Smith]

(08-04-2015 08:26 AM)L Verge Wrote:  John Stanton and Bill Richter can probably answer this better than I. I know that there are a few bios done on Benjamin, but I admit to not having read them -- even though I have suspected for lo these many years that the man is key to understanding any theory that the Confederacy was behind at least early kidnap ideas regarding Lincoln. This was one of the challenges that I gave to John Fazio about 3-4 years ago; please prove it for me. I used to get tired of hearing people accuse Stanton of being the mastermind behind the assassination. I would tell them to turn around and look South for the culprit.

If my knees would work, I'd like to spend some retirement years researching the money trail of Judah Benjamin also. I doubt we will ever find a definite paper trail because I think the man was a genius at secretive work. If nothing else, I would think that his wife's reputation would keep him very aware of covering up things that could be used against him...

It has long been my belief that Jefferson Davis was finally convinced by Judah Benjamin {and a few others} that the time had come to get Mr. Lincoln.

[John Fazio]

(08-04-2015 09:47 AM)Rick Smith Wrote:  

(08-04-2015 08:26 AM)L Verge Wrote:  John Stanton and Bill Richter can probably answer this better than I. I know that there are a few bios done on Benjamin, but I admit to not having read them -- even though I have suspected for lo these many years that the man is key to understanding any theory that the Confederacy was behind at least early kidnap ideas regarding Lincoln. This was one of the challenges that I gave to John Fazio about 3-4 years ago; please prove it for me. I used to get tired of hearing people accuse Stanton of being the mastermind behind the assassination. I would tell them to turn around and look South for the culprit.

If my knees would work, I'd like to spend some retirement years researching the money trail of Judah Benjamin also. I doubt we will ever find a definite paper trail because I think the man was a genius at secretive work. If nothing else, I would think that his wife's reputation would keep him very aware of covering up things that could be used against him...

It has long been my belief that Jefferson Davis was finally convinced by Judah Benjamin {and a few others} that the time had come to get Mr. Lincoln.

Rick:

By "get", do you mean to kidnap him or to kill him? If the latter, where do we differ?

John

[Rick Smith]

(08-04-2015 10:41 AM)John Fazio Wrote:  

(08-04-2015 09:47 AM)Rick Smith Wrote:  

(08-04-2015 08:26 AM)L Verge Wrote:  John Stanton and Bill Richter can probably answer this better than I. I know that there are a few bios done on Benjamin, but I admit to not having read them -- even though I have suspected for lo these many years that the man is key to understanding any theory that the Confederacy was behind at least early kidnap ideas regarding Lincoln. This was one of the challenges that I gave to John Fazio about 3-4 years ago; please prove it for me. I used to get tired of hearing people accuse Stanton of being the mastermind behind the assassination. I would tell them to turn around and look South for the culprit.

If my knees would work, I'd like to spend some retirement years researching the money trail of Judah Benjamin also. I doubt we will ever find a definite paper trail because I think the man was a genius at secretive work. If nothing else, I would think that his wife's reputation would keep him very aware of covering up things that could be used against him...

It has long been my belief that Jefferson Davis was finally convinced by Judah Benjamin {and a few others} that the time had come to get Mr. Lincoln.

Rick:

By "get", do you mean to kidnap him or to kill him? If the latter, where do we differ?

John

John,

Thanks for your question. My apologies for not being clear.

I do not think we differ on much, just maybe to some details.

By "get," I mean that it was time to eliminate Lincoln.

Rick

[John Fazio]

(08-04-2015 10:51 AM)Rick Smith Wrote:  

(08-04-2015 10:41 AM)John Fazio Wrote:  

(08-04-2015 09:47 AM)Rick Smith Wrote:  

(08-04-2015 08:26 AM)L Verge Wrote:  John Stanton and Bill Richter can probably answer this better than I. I know that there are a few bios done on Benjamin, but I admit to not having read them -- even though I have suspected for lo these many years that the man is key to understanding any theory that the Confederacy was behind at least early kidnap ideas regarding Lincoln. This was one of the challenges that I gave to John Fazio about 3-4 years ago; please prove it for me. I used to get tired of hearing people accuse Stanton of being the mastermind behind the assassination. I would tell them to turn around and look South for the culprit.

If my knees would work, I'd like to spend some retirement years researching the money trail of Judah Benjamin also. I doubt we will ever find a definite paper trail because I think the man was a genius at secretive work. If nothing else, I would think that his wife's reputation would keep him very aware of covering up things that could be used against him...

It has long been my belief that Jefferson Davis was finally convinced by Judah Benjamin {and a few others} that the time had come to get Mr. Lincoln.

Rick:

By "get", do you mean to kidnap him or to kill him? If the latter, where do we differ?

John

John,

Thanks for your question. My apologies for not being clear.

I do not think we differ on much, just maybe to some details.

By "get," I mean that it was time to eliminate Lincoln.

Rick

Rick:

Then there isn't much difference in our opinions, except, perhaps, as to timing and the breadth of the conspiracy. I maintain that assassination was Booth's goal from at least the time he met with the four Confederate Secret Service agents in Boston's Parker House. They didn't meet with him to discuss theater, for sure, nor, in my opinon, to discuss kidnapping, exept as a ruse to conceal the more sinister purpose and to facilitate the recruitment of his action team. Further, I maintain that Booth ultimately decided to take out at least five government leaders, though when he made the decision to try to accomplish that goal, or when it was made for him by his handlers, is hard to say. I believe it is probable that Booth's handlers intended to take out as many as possible, but that they could not realistically expect Booth to take out more than four, leaving Stanton and other leaders to others under their control. There is a telling quote in the National Intelligencer that appears in the April 18, 1865, edition of the New York Times, as follows: "We can state on the highest authority that it has been ascertained that there was a regular conspiracy to assassinate every member of the cabinet, together with the Vice President." This dovetails perfectly with the "Johnston" letter contained on p. 260 of my book.

John

[Rick Smith]

(08-04-2015 11:13 AM)John Fazio Wrote:  

(08-04-2015 10:51 AM)Rick Smith Wrote:  

(08-04-2015 10:41 AM)John Fazio Wrote:  

(08-04-2015 09:47 AM)Rick Smith Wrote:  

(08-04-2015 08:26 AM)L Verge Wrote:  John Stanton and Bill Richter can probably answer this better than I. I know that there are a few bios done on Benjamin, but I admit to not having read them -- even though I have suspected for lo these many years that the man is key to understanding any theory that the Confederacy was behind at least early kidnap ideas regarding Lincoln. This was one of the challenges that I gave to John Fazio about 3-4 years ago; please prove it for me. I used to get tired of hearing people accuse Stanton of being the mastermind behind the assassination. I would tell them to turn around and look South for the culprit.

If my knees would work, I'd like to spend some retirement years researching the money trail of Judah Benjamin also. I doubt we will ever find a definite paper trail because I think the man was a genius at secretive work. If nothing else, I would think that his wife's reputation would keep him very aware of covering up things that could be used against him...

It has long been my belief that Jefferson Davis was finally convinced by Judah Benjamin {and a few others} that the time had come to get Mr. Lincoln.

Rick:

By "get", do you mean to kidnap him or to kill him? If the latter, where do we differ?

John

John,

Thanks for your question. My apologies for not being clear.

I do not think we differ on much, just maybe to some details.

By "get," I mean that it was time to eliminate Lincoln.

Rick

Rick:

Then there isn't much difference in our opinions, except, perhaps, as to timing and the breadth of the conspiracy. I maintain that assassination was Booth's goal from at least the time he met with the four Confederate Secret Service agents in Boston's Parker House. They didn't meet with him to discuss theater, for sure, nor, in my opinon, to discuss kidnapping, exept as a ruse to conceal the more sinister purpose and to facilitate the recruitment of his action team. Further, I maintain that Booth ultimately decided to take out at least five government leaders, though when he made the decision to try to accomplish that goal, or when it was made for him by his handlers, is hard to say. I believe it is probable that Booth's handlers intended to take out as many as possible, but that they could not realistically expect Booth to take out more than four, leaving Stanton and other leaders to others under their control. There is a telling quote in the National Intelligencer that appears in the April 18, 1865, edition of the New York Times, as follows: "We can state on the highest authority that it has been ascertained that there was a regular conspiracy to assassinate every member of the cabinet, together with the Vice President." This dovetails perfectly with the "Johnston" letter contained on p. 260 of my book.

John

John,

I do believe that the conspiracy was very broad, not only as regards Booth's action team, members of the Confederate government and their known agents, but also as it extends to lesser known and unknown individuals who acted as support structure for the operation.

I also believe that the simultaneous assassinations planned for the night of April 14 were to be actions directed at other targets apart from Lincoln, Johnson and Seward.

Rick

[SSlater]

There is another factor that we do not address, for this time period. That is: Jefferson Davis was very ill in the last days of the war, bed ridden, and totally Out of the Picture. Benjamin actually ran the Confederacy. It shows most clearly in his correspondence. He starts his letters with "The President, directed me to tell you, that he wishes that you to....." . (This happens when Davis isn't conscious) This is shown on the letter that E.G. Lee handed to Thompson when he arrived in Montreal. Benjamin then tells Thompson to deposit the "left-over" money in HIS ACCOUNT. When Benjamin left Richmond in April 65, he had special pockets sewn into his coat, so that he could carry all "his" Gold. (This is in addition to the money he had ordered sent to England.) Seriously, I felt ill when I read these accounts, of people I had respected as Confederateleaders. (This is a Yankee talking.). IF, Benjamin had good intentions, to share the wealth, he never had to. only one other person escaped . (I can't remember his name, I think he was an Admiral.
Incidentally, did you ever hear of a book "Niagara( Spelling?- Like the Falls) on the Lake"? It is an account of the distribution of some Confederate Cash, after the war. Davis , is there, and almost all of the Confederate Higherarchy. (Got me again Spelling?) Everybody showed up and everybody got a "Bundle".

[John Fazio]

(08-04-2015 11:36 AM)Rick Smith Wrote:  

(08-04-2015 11:13 AM)John Fazio Wrote:  

(08-04-2015 10:51 AM)Rick Smith Wrote:  

(08-04-2015 10:41 AM)John Fazio Wrote:  

(08-04-2015 09:47 AM)Rick Smith Wrote:  It has long been my belief that Jefferson Davis was finally convinced by Judah Benjamin {and a few others} that the time had come to get Mr. Lincoln.

Rick:

By "get", do you mean to kidnap him or to kill him? If the latter, where do we differ?

John

John,

Thanks for your question. My apologies for not being clear.

I do not think we differ on much, just maybe to some details.

By "get," I mean that it was time to eliminate Lincoln.

Rick

Rick:

Then there isn't much difference in our opinions, except, perhaps, as to timing and the breadth of the conspiracy. I maintain that assassination was Booth's goal from at least the time he met with the four Confederate Secret Service agents in Boston's Parker House. They didn't meet with him to discuss theater, for sure, nor, in my opinon, to discuss kidnapping, exept as a ruse to conceal the more sinister purpose and to facilitate the recruitment of his action team. Further, I maintain that Booth ultimately decided to take out at least five government leaders, though when he made the decision to try to accomplish that goal, or when it was made for him by his handlers, is hard to say. I believe it is probable that Booth's handlers intended to take out as many as possible, but that they could not realistically expect Booth to take out more than four, leaving Stanton and other leaders to others under their control. There is a telling quote in the National Intelligencer that appears in the April 18, 1865, edition of the New York Times, as follows: "We can state on the highest authority that it has been ascertained that there was a regular conspiracy to assassinate every member of the cabinet, together with the Vice President." This dovetails perfectly with the "Johnston" letter contained on p. 260 of my book.

John

John,

I do believe that the conspiracy was very broad, not only as regards Booth's action team, members of the Confederate government and their known agents, but also as it extends to lesser known and unknown individuals who acted as support structure for the operation.

I also believe that the simultaneous assassinations planned for the night of April 14 were to be actions directed at other targets apart from Lincoln, Johnson and Seward.

Rick

Rick:

Then there is no difference in our basic positions. We both agree that there was a general conspiracy to decapitate the government of the United States, or to at least get as many as they could. It was all that was left to them to avert what they considered to be the catastrophe that was then all but upon them.

John

[Rick Smith]

(08-04-2015 03:29 PM)John Fazio Wrote:  

(08-04-2015 11:36 AM)Rick Smith Wrote:  

(08-04-2015 11:13 AM)John Fazio Wrote:  

(08-04-2015 10:51 AM)Rick Smith Wrote:  

(08-04-2015 10:41 AM)John Fazio Wrote:  Rick:

By "get", do you mean to kidnap him or to kill him? If the latter, where do we differ?

John

John,

Thanks for your question. My apologies for not being clear.

I do not think we differ on much, just maybe to some details.

By "get," I mean that it was time to eliminate Lincoln.

Rick

Rick:

Then there isn't much difference in our opinions, except, perhaps, as to timing and the breadth of the conspiracy. I maintain that assassination was Booth's goal from at least the time he met with the four Confederate Secret Service agents in Boston's Parker House. They didn't meet with him to discuss theater, for sure, nor, in my opinon, to discuss kidnapping, exept as a ruse to conceal the more sinister purpose and to facilitate the recruitment of his action team. Further, I maintain that Booth ultimately decided to take out at least five government leaders, though when he made the decision to try to accomplish that goal, or when it was made for him by his handlers, is hard to say. I believe it is probable that Booth's handlers intended to take out as many as possible, but that they could not realistically expect Booth to take out more than four, leaving Stanton and other leaders to others under their control. There is a telling quote in the National Intelligencer that appears in the April 18, 1865, edition of the New York Times, as follows: "We can state on the highest authority that it has been ascertained that there was a regular conspiracy to assassinate every member of the cabinet, together with the Vice President." This dovetails perfectly with the "Johnston" letter contained on p. 260 of my book.

John

John,

I do believe that the conspiracy was very broad, not only as regards Booth's action team, members of the Confederate government and their known agents, but also as it extends to lesser known and unknown individuals who acted as support structure for the operation.

I also believe that the simultaneous assassinations planned for the night of April 14 were to be actions directed at other targets apart from Lincoln, Johnson and Seward.

Rick

Rick:

Then there is no difference in our basic positions. We both agree that there was a general conspiracy to decapitate the government of the United States, or to at least get as many as they could. It was all that was left to them to avert what they considered to be the catastrophe that was then all but upon them.

John

John,

Agreed.

No question that Booth and his team had as their objective the decapitation of the federal government. A reflection of the Harney plan. If not all at one place, simultaneous assassination at different places would have to do.

Probably the difference in our positions is that I would have been with them.

But then, I am unreconstructed.

Rick

[John Fazio]

(08-04-2015 05:39 PM)Rick Smith Wrote:  

(08-04-2015 03:29 PM)John Fazio Wrote:  

(08-04-2015 11:36 AM)Rick Smith Wrote:  

(08-04-2015 11:13 AM)John Fazio Wrote:  

(08-04-2015 10:51 AM)Rick Smith Wrote:  John,

Thanks for your question. My apologies for not being clear.

I do not think we differ on much, just maybe to some details.

By "get," I mean that it was time to eliminate Lincoln.

Rick

Rick:

Then there isn't much difference in our opinions, except, perhaps, as to timing and the breadth of the conspiracy. I maintain that assassination was Booth's goal from at least the time he met with the four Confederate Secret Service agents in Boston's Parker House. They didn't meet with him to discuss theater, for sure, nor, in my opinon, to discuss kidnapping, exept as a ruse to conceal the more sinister purpose and to facilitate the recruitment of his action team. Further, I maintain that Booth ultimately decided to take out at least five government leaders, though when he made the decision to try to accomplish that goal, or when it was made for him by his handlers, is hard to say. I believe it is probable that Booth's handlers intended to take out as many as possible, but that they could not realistically expect Booth to take out more than four, leaving Stanton and other leaders to others under their control. There is a telling quote in the National Intelligencer that appears in the April 18, 1865, edition of the New York Times, as follows: "We can state on the highest authority that it has been ascertained that there was a regular conspiracy to assassinate every member of the cabinet, together with the Vice President." This dovetails perfectly with the "Johnston" letter contained on p. 260 of my book.

John

John,

I do believe that the conspiracy was very broad, not only as regards Booth's action team, members of the Confederate government and their known agents, but also as it extends to lesser known and unknown individuals who acted as support structure for the operation.

I also believe that the simultaneous assassinations planned for the night of April 14 were to be actions directed at other targets apart from Lincoln, Johnson and Seward.

Rick

Rick:

Then there is no difference in our basic positions. We both agree that there was a general conspiracy to decapitate the government of the United States, or to at least get as many as they could. It was all that was left to them to avert what they considered to be the catastrophe that was then all but upon them.

John

John,

Agreed.

No question that Booth and his team had as their objective the decapitation of the federal government. A reflection of the Harney plan. If not all at one place, simultaneous assassination at different places would have to do.

Probably the difference in our positions is that I would have been with them.

But then, I am unreconstructed.

Rick

Rick:

No probablies about it. What will it take to reconstruct you? Two questions: Do you agree that acknowledgement of error is a mark of courage? Do you believe that slavery was desirable and therefore worth preserving even at the cost of war? Upon receipt of your answers, I will refer you to a document which I believe you will find interesting. I'll give you a hint: it is not Alexander Stephens's famous pre-war speech, nor his equally famous post-war speech.

John

[Rick Smith]

(08-04-2015 06:30 PM)John Fazio Wrote:  

(08-04-2015 05:39 PM)Rick Smith Wrote:  

(08-04-2015 03:29 PM)John Fazio Wrote:  

(08-04-2015 11:36 AM)Rick Smith Wrote:  

(08-04-2015 11:13 AM)John Fazio Wrote:  Rick:

Then there isn't much difference in our opinions, except, perhaps, as to timing and the breadth of the conspiracy. I maintain that assassination was Booth's goal from at least the time he met with the four Confederate Secret Service agents in Boston's Parker House. They didn't meet with him to discuss theater, for sure, nor, in my opinon, to discuss kidnapping, exept as a ruse to conceal the more sinister purpose and to facilitate the recruitment of his action team. Further, I maintain that Booth ultimately decided to take out at least five government leaders, though when he made the decision to try to accomplish that goal, or when it was made for him by his handlers, is hard to say. I believe it is probable that Booth's handlers intended to take out as many as possible, but that they could not realistically expect Booth to take out more than four, leaving Stanton and other leaders to others under their control. There is a telling quote in the National Intelligencer that appears in the April 18, 1865, edition of the New York Times, as follows: "We can state on the highest authority that it has been ascertained that there was a regular conspiracy to assassinate every member of the cabinet, together with the Vice President." This dovetails perfectly with the "Johnston" letter contained on p. 260 of my book.

John

John,

I do believe that the conspiracy was very broad, not only as regards Booth's action team, members of the Confederate government and their known agents, but also as it extends to lesser known and unknown individuals who acted as support structure for the operation.

I also believe that the simultaneous assassinations planned for the night of April 14 were to be actions directed at other targets apart from Lincoln, Johnson and Seward.

Rick

Rick:

Then there is no difference in our basic positions. We both agree that there was a general conspiracy to decapitate the government of the United States, or to at least get as many as they could. It was all that was left to them to avert what they considered to be the catastrophe that was then all but upon them.

John

John,

Agreed.

No question that Booth and his team had as their objective the decapitation of the federal government. A reflection of the Harney plan. If not all at one place, simultaneous assassination at different places would have to do.

Probably the difference in our positions is that I would have been with them.

But then, I am unreconstructed.

Rick

Rick:

No probablies about it. What will it take to reconstruct you? Two questions: Do you agree that acknowledgement of error is a mark of courage? Do you believe that slavery was desirable and therefore worth preserving even at the cost of war? Upon receipt of your answers, I will refer you to a document which I believe you will find interesting. I'll give you a hint: it is not Alexander Stephens's famous pre-war speech, nor his equally famous post-war speech.

John

John,

We may be delving into murky waters here. Although a Southerner and having many ancestors who were in General Lee's army, I do believe that if slavery was what the War was over, it was the worst reason for a fight. No slave was worth even one of the 700,000 casualties.

But there is more to it than this, and I cannot put it into words that anyone not of Southern heritage would understand. I do believe that the South was manipulated into firing the first shot; all part of Mr. Lincoln's and the radical Republicans' plan to bring on the war.

Bill Richter has written on this subject and can speak eloquently upon it; I cannot.

Rick

[Gene C]

(08-03-2015 08:27 PM)SSlater Wrote:  I will wait until you finish your post, and add my two cents.
I have a copy of the letter that Benjamin wrote, that directed Thompson - How to disperse the "treasury". Most of the money was to be deposited in Benjamin's personal Account, in England. Thompson gets receipts for the money. (He kept "Adequate funds to be able to return home.") Some of Thompson's delay in leaving Canada was - he was waiting for his wife to arrive from Mississippi.
PS When Benjamin escaped, after the war, his first stop -before he went to see his wife - was the bank in England".

Sorry for the delay on my comments about Jacob Thompson -
I couldn't find any more significant info in "This Awful Drama". Susan Higginbotham sent me a file of Edwin Lee's diary for 1865. It's hard to read and doesn't cover much detail.
However, I did find this from Eli Evans book on Judah Benjamin
regarding Jacob Thompson...., regarding the attempted fire bombs in New York City, "Benjamin was embarrassed and furious about the mission. The damage done, or lack of it, did not matter-after all, look what Sherman was doing in Georgia. But once more it was hideously bungled: full stories in the newspaper, lack of discretion in choosing the parties to the plot, and the selection of targets, as if hotels were military installations. The most the raid could accomplish was to create excitement, stirring up vast numbers of people against the South without destroying crucial supply depots, military trains, or arsenals to make the mission worthwhile. It made the papers without making any difference.

The President (Davis) had lost his patience. He felt that Thompson was just throwing away money in Canada; there were rumors that any deserter could get a couple of thousand dollars by just saying he wanted to organize a Sons Of Liberty operation somewhere."
...... more failed operations ( John Yates Beal's failed attempt to capture a Federal gunboat patrolling the Great Lakes and then rescue prisoners from the Johnson Island prison, and then the St. Albans bank robbery, Thompson's plan to spend $100,000 out of his Confederate accounts with a Nashville banker to spent it in New York in an attempt to create a run on the gold market) and more are mentioned on page p 272.

"The spies, still more panicked after yet another failure, began to freelance more, with less and less control by Thompson." p273

I gather Davis and Benjamin were tired of Jacob Thompson's mismanagement and were attempting to recall him.
I agree with Wild Bill about Evan's book. It is very good.