Sad

[Wild Bill]

I disagree (no surprise).

Some people are just plain born bad. I remember them all through my school years and since.

As for incorrigibles, that's what hemp rope was created for. Use it.

Yeah, I know, I ought to be the first hanged.

[BettyO]

Yeah, I know, I ought to be the first hanged.

Perish the thought, Bill!

I think a lot of what has happened is that the "family unit" is gone in a lot of instances. Kids are brought into the world with only one parent (the mother). There is no closeness; no security for a lot of these kids. They don't know what it is to be a part of a true family (mother, father, siblings, etc). So they go outside the home to seek a "belonging" - usually with the wrong types; gang members, etc.

This type of environment does not thrive nor has it ever thrived, on respect, closeness, pride or love.

[HerbS]

Well,there possibly is a way to change the soccer player and the inmate.First,you need a highly trained and energy filled task force of people along with unlimited funds.Then,you go into the homes,community,and schools.They need mentors and life skills taught to them.

[J. Beckert]

I disagree (no surprise).

Some people are just plain born bad. I remember them all through my school years and since.

As for incorrigibles, that's what hemp rope was created for. Use it.

Yeah, I know, I ought to be the first hanged.

No, you shouldn't be the first to be hanged, Bill and I agree about the rope. There's too much coddling anymore. I was sent an e-mail awhile back with a woman ranting that "you people need to take care of my kids". She had 15 kids and couldn't take care of them. Who in their right mind would have 15 kids then? They breed like roaches and expect to have a check sent every month? It's insane. There's way too much of that (while I'm looking at paying 30% -40% income tax this year), too much rioting when a verdict doesn't pan out like certain groups think it should, etc. Liberalism is one thing. Socialism is another.

[L Verge]

Sorry, Rob, but the conservative in me must disagree with your assessments of the situation once again. I have spent a very miserable past year dealing with several grown-ups who act just like hooligans because they did not get their own way. These are people entering into their senior years with a lack of civility and decency -- so don't blame it all on our youth. Our youth are taking their lessons from grown-ups such as these. They are taught that evil is okay as long as YOU benefit from it. You may be on food stamps, but it's okay to buy that $150 pair of shoes. No problem walking around with half your under drawers showing or your upper body falling out of your top.

Parents don't enforce rules because they are happier having their children out of their houses and running the streets. Everyone who is a parent on this forum knows that children are a 24/7 job. They are not wild birds that you kick out of the nest and expect them to survive by any means. Schools fail because they are not attracting -nor even hiring - qualified teachers. When administrators and teachers try to set rules, the parents (who dropped out of school themselves at 16), come storming in to protest. Churches are spending all their money building huge temples of worship instead of spending on the improvement of their congregants.

And don't even get me started on the politicians that we are breeding today. Mighty, anti-American forces are working behind the scenes to pull candidates from out of nowhere and get them elected to serve the backers' needs as well as the candidates'. Heaven help America when laziness, greed, and abominable behavior are the new norms.

P.S. Rob, the Memorial has yet to be completely cleaned. They are having a very difficult time removing the green paint because marble is very porous. Work will resume again tomorrow, but they finally had to cordon off the work area and reopen to the public. Comments from the visitors have been very interesting -- many of them echoing the sentiments of Herb, Gene, Joe, and Bill.

[Liz Rosenthal]

Before y'all indict society as a whole for what turned out to be a very minor incident (the "painting" of Abe), think about this:

The annual conclave of the Conservative Political Action Committee (CPAC), certainly no apologist for government programs or civil unrest, has provided a platform to Thomas DiLorenzo, an academic and writer who argues vociferously that Lincoln was simply a bloodthirsty tyrant; CPAC also sanctioned the distribution of inflammatory pamphlets to that effect. Is it so hard to imagine that acolytes of DiLorenzo, presumably white and middle class, might feel motivated to deface something as prominent and majestic as Washington DC's Lincoln Memorial, knowing as they do that Lincoln "unnecessarily" got us into a bloody war in which three-quarters of a million people died?

[L Verge]

First, I do not consider the defacing of any public monument "a very minor incident." That attitude is what got America started down the wrong path decades ago when all levels of political and judicial circles decided that "very minor incidents" did not require any punishment. Have you ever heard of chain reaction?

As for CPAC? Personally, I trust no political action committee - whether liberal, conservative, or don't-care. And, so far as I know, no one has cast blame on white, black, purple, or blue hooligans specifically. There are evil people in all classes and all races of mankind, so don't try to turn this into a black & white issue, please.

[Rob Wick]

All I can say is that America has the highest incarceration rate in the entire world, but that hasn't had an appreciable effect on crime, whether it be hooligansim or serious offenses. Until we start to address the root causes, whatever they may be, nothing will change.

Best
Rob

[L Verge]

My point exactly! And, most of us (from the top down) know some of the root causes, but choose to do nothing about it.

[Liz Rosenthal]

Laurie: You're putting words in my mouth. I never said that the person or persons who defaced the Lincoln Memorial shouldn't be punished. But, yes, I do think it was a minor form of vandalism, in the scheme of things. It could have been a lot worse. I just don't see getting all hysterical about it and using this as yet another excuse to lament the downfall of civilization.

[My Name Is Kate]

Presiden Lincoln once said:

"...the will of God prevails. Without him, all human reliance is vain. Without the assistance of that devine being, I cannot succeed. With that assistance I cannot fail. Being a humble instrument in the hands of our Heavenly Father, I desire that all my all my works and acts be according to his will; and that it may be so, I give my thanks to the almighty, and seek his aid."

That quote is both comforting and frightening. Comforting to know that Lincoln believed in God and looked to Him for guidance. Frightening any time politics and religion are mixed. That may sound like a paradox, and probably is.

I agree with Wild Bill...some people are just plain born evil. It bothers me to think that, but I can't see it any other way...

And I wholeheartedly agree with Laurie's statement:

"Mighty, anti-American forces are working behind the scenes to pull candidates from out of nowhere and get them elected to serve the backers' needs as well as the candidates'."

Other interesting comments too, that I agree with.

[BettyO]

I don't think that anyone is "putting words" into anyone's mouth... folk are free to discuss their viewpoints, and no one is getting "hysterical" about anything.

I also think that what happened is a sad reflection on the times we live in. Period! There is definitely a lack of respect and civility in America these days....and it's going to take a lot to overcome it.

[HerbS]

Liz,please define a major form of vandalism when it comes to defacing a monument of a president.

[Gene C]

Kate, religion and politics must mix if we want the type of society that most of us claim to want. True Religion holds man to a higher degree of personal standards and conduct than he will impose on himself. Mankind needs something higher than itself to be acountable to. (and the answer is not govenment)
I think Lincoln believed this. Part of the problem in this and other coutries is ......(theological and religious commentary)...is a lack of priorities. Putting God first, others second, myself third. Easy answer, but not easy to put into practice, consistently. It's not for wimps. But the ultimate reward will be worth it.

[Liz Rosenthal]

Liz,please define a major form of vandalism when it comes to defacing a monument of a president.

Come on, Herb. You can answer that one yourself. This was a little bit of paint. There was no physical destruction, no permanent defacement.

P.S. I agree with Gene's earlier post in which he said Lincoln would comment that this is much ado about nothing. One thing I love about Lincoln is his rejection of formalities. In his day, to the horror of many of his "gentlemanly" contemporaries, he was laid back, informal, relaxed, even crude at times; he kept his mind on the important things in life and the important political issues. He didn't waste his time on trivialities.