Did Lincoln pick up Maj. Rathbone amd Miss Harris?

[Rhatkinson]

I respect John's research on this topic, but wonder what his response is to Harris' statement as reported in "Lincoln's Last Night" on 4/29/1865 where she wrote that, "They [President and Mrs. Lincoln] drove to our door in the gayest spirits..."

This would seem to imply that the Rathbone's were picked up, which I realize is contrary to what Noah Brooks and others reported. How do you explain this?

(I found this in the article "The Rathbone Connection" by Frank Rathbun in the July, 1982 issue of the Surratt Courrier.)

Heath

[RJNorton]

Heath, I do not know if they were picked up or not. I think John's research is remarkable, and I now lean in his direction, but I don't know with any degree of certainty. But, for the sake of controversy, I'll make a few comments about Clara's memory. If I am reading Clara's entire statement correctly (p. 69-71 of Tim Good's book) she implies that Lincoln's speech was the night before the murder. Am I interpreting that correctly? If so, this is wrong. Lincoln's speech was 3 days before the murder. Also, Joe Beckert found that Clara had made a statement that Booth had "scouted" the State Box one hour prior to the murder at Ford's. As far as I know, she was the only one who said this happened. You would think, if it really happened as she said, others in the theater would have seen it. Finally, Clara made a statement about Laura Keene not being in the box after the shot was fired. This is in contrast to other folks who said Keene was in the box.

So, my question is - how reliable a witness is Clara Harris?

[BettyO]

My personal opinion would be that Clara was probably not a very reliable witness. She was more or less in a state of shock (as were both Mrs. Lincoln and Rathbone himself) at what had transpired and therefore, while in such a mindset, could get things jumbled up - this usually seems to be somewhat prevalent when one is witness to a traumatic occurrence.

[Jim Garrett]

This is such as good example of "the more we know, the more we don't know". Great example of conflicting information.

[LincolnMan]

I wonder if Author Frank Rathbun is related to Major Rathbone- as the last names are so similar?

[Rhatkinson]

(05-21-2013 04:10 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  So, my question is - how reliable a witness is Clara Harris?

Roger, I agree that Harris' memory is certainly suspect, especially over the "Booth scouted the box" comment. However, the one thing that makes me believe her "the Lincoln's picked us up" comment is the date that it was made - just two weeks after the assassination. If I recall, the other comment about Booth was many years later. While it was certainly possible that Harris was mistaken due to the trauma she had just witnessed, it seems less likely to me. How that is rectified by Brooks' comment, I don't know.

[J. Beckert]

The comment Harris made about Booth looking into the box was made a short time later, that's why I find it so intriguing. As Roger stated earlier, it is suspect that many people recognized and noted Booth when he went in to shoot Lincoln, but no one remembers him coming to the box an hour before. Something is off with her version of events.

[BettyO]

I totally agree with Joe and Roger - something is very off here with this recollection.

[Rhatkinson]

(05-21-2013 09:12 AM)J. Beckert Wrote:  The comment Harris made about Booth looking into the box was made a short time later, that's why I find it so intriguing. As Roger stated earlier, it is suspect that many people recognized and noted Booth when he went in to shoot Lincoln, but no one remembers him coming to the box an hour before. Something is off with her version of events.

Mr. Beckert,

I stand corrected on the Harris statement. I mistakenly thought it was given many years later.

Heath

[J. Beckert]

It's Joe, Heath and given the unreliability of Clara's statements, I'm starting to think something is very suspect about all her statements.

[scldrgnfly]

Can somebody help me? Where did this thread begin? You know, when you were discussing Where Rathbone lived at the time? Did you log the information that Captain Rathbone was stationed at the Russel Barracks as of September 22, 1864 and on special assignment to the War Department? Did he happen to work for the Treasury department before that? Hon. Ira Harris was boarding at the Willard in 1864. This is what I get for taking time away from y'all!

[RJNorton]

(05-22-2013 04:11 PM)scldrgnfly Wrote:  Can somebody help me? Where did this thread begin? You know, when you were discussing Where Rathbone lived at the time?

Hi Martha. In addition to the discussion here there was also a lengthy discussion on this topic within this thread.

[scldrgnfly]

Thank you, Roger!

[L Verge]

We need to have Seward Osborne chime in here.

[John Fazio]

Roger, Laurie, Betty, et al.:

I would like to comment on Clara Harris's reliability as a witness and, specifically, on her comment re Booth's prior entry to the box.

Granted some witnesses are better than others (e.g. Leale, Rathbone and Weichmann are good; Stewart (Joseph), Sleichmann and Ritterspaugh are bad), still, it is probably true that nothing is perfectly recalled. Ms. Harris, in my opinion, is a good witness if not a great one. She made two statements, one immediately after the assassination, one two days later. The first refers to the intruder, but says nothing about Rathbone addressing Booth when he attacked; the second omits reference to the intruder, but says Rathbone asked Booth what his business was when he attacked. I regard her reference to the intruder as historical and it is in my book, referred to as "the dry run", for the following reasons:

1. It is in her first statement when the events were freshest in her mind, before she had time to consider appearances.
2. She probably left it out of her second statement because it cast her fiancee in a bad light for not having followed it up with an inquiry.
3. For the same reason, she has her fiancee challenging Booth on his second visit, but not on his first. Both of these changes argue for authenticity of the first statement.
4. Booth needed to make a dry run because though he could see who was seated beside the outer door, he did not know what he would have to contend with in the passageway. It was therefore necessary for him to go into the passageway to make that determination, and while he was there he stuck his head into the presidential box (that's all Ms. Harris said he did) to determine the position of the occupants and the President's protection. Why didn't he strike then? Because he had a timetable. All strikes had to occur at about the same time, i.e. 10:15.
5. Ms. Harris positively identifies the intruder as "the assassin", and confirms his identity by saying "Upon his entering the box again...".
6. Ms. Harris had no motivation to fabricate this incident.
7. The intruder could not have been Hanscomb, as postulated by Eisenschiml, because Hanscomb could not be clearer: He found only Forbes in front of the outer door and he left the White House dispatch with Forbes; he DID NOT take it into the box. Furthemore, Ms. Harris places the intrusion at about an hour before the fatal strike; Hanscomb came 20 minutes before the strike. Furthermore, Ms. Harris said the intruder just looked in to take a survey; he did not come into the box and deliver anything to anyone.
8. Ms. Harris's first statement is accepted as true by Noah Brooks (Burlingame,p. 189) See also The Lincoln Assassination, pp. 43, 979; Bryan, pp. 178, 179.

I have the honor to be, Sir and Madam, your most obedient and humble servant

John