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+--- Thread: What Was The Role of David Herold (/thread-581.html)
RE: What Was The Role of David Herold - Jim Page - 03-26-2013 08:38 PM
(03-26-2013 08:01 PM)L Verge Wrote: I pointed this out quite some time ago and was ignored. You and I may stand alone on this. I still think Herold was with Powell long enough to see Lew enter the Seward home and then headed off to check on Atzerodt and meet up with Booth.
I thought this scenario was fairly well established; maybe I'm wrong. At any rate, it seems logical and is what I always thought was what happened that night.
Now, am I mistaken or isn't there someone on this forum who's researching specifically into David Herold? I'm not naming names, in case I'm all wet, but I keep looking here and on one other web site for news of this research. I frankly find Herold one of the most interesting of the folks involved in the assassination and can't wait to see what comes of this research. Unless, of course, I'm dreaming the whole thing.
--Jim
RE: What Was The Role of David Herold - wsanto - 03-27-2013 04:55 AM
(03-26-2013 08:01 PM)L Verge Wrote: I pointed this out quite some time ago and was ignored. You and I may stand alone on this. I still think Herold was with Powell long enough to see Lew enter the Seward home and then headed off to check on Atzerodt and meet up with Booth.
I agree Laurie. I think Fletcher's testimony cleary has Herold riding away from Seward's house and heading down Pennsylvania Ave toward either the Kirkwood at 12th and Pennsylvania or possibly to the Navy Yard Bridge when he is surprised by Fletcher's confrontation near the Willard and gallops away in a different direction.
RE: What Was The Role of David Herold - RJNorton - 03-27-2013 05:10 AM
(12-30-2012 05:14 PM)Linda Anderson Wrote: From American Brutus:
"Lewis Powell and David Herold had already gone to Lafayette Park. The Park superintendent always called out the time as he locked the gate, and as soon as that happened, Powell would approach the Sewards' house. He would knock on the door, and then tell the servant he had medicine to give the secretary. It seemed an excellent plan, but at the last minute a complication arose: one of Seward's doctors was still in the house. Now Powell had to either come up with a new cover story or delay his attack. Since nothing came to mind, he sent Harold galloping away to tell the others to hold off."
Thus, Mike Kauffman has Herold riding from the Seward home to the Kirkwood House to tell Atzerodt to delay the attack on Johnson. I have asked this before, but we have some new members since then. Does anyone know the source for Mike Kauffman's version? Fletcher's testimony helps in placing where Herold was but does not help with answering the question about delaying the attacks. Mr. Kauffman's book, as far as I can recall, is the only assassination book in which I have I read this version.
RE: What Was The Role of David Herold - BettyO - 03-27-2013 05:54 AM
I've changed my original affirmations in Alias to reflect more or less on the pointman theory -- I agree with Laurie - I think Herold was the "Point Man" -
Powell knew his way around DC well enough to get out - even if he wasn't headed back to Virginia
RE: What Was The Role of David Herold - Laurie Verge - 03-27-2013 09:43 AM
Kauffman is the only historian I know to posit that Herold was supposed to tell the others to hold off their attacks, and those last five words are what puzzle me. Mike offers no citation for this, so we can only assume that he is "creating" the scenario on his own.
I think it is more likely that Herold took off once he knew Powell was inside the house -- assuming that Powell was a big boy and that the deed would be done.
RE: What Was The Role of David Herold - JMadonna - 03-27-2013 10:04 AM
(03-26-2013 08:01 PM)L Verge Wrote: I pointed this out quite some time ago and was ignored. You and I may stand alone on this. I still think Herold was with Powell long enough to see Lew enter the Seward home and then headed off to check on Atzerodt and meet up with Booth.
If he went to check on Atzerodt, that means he came from the Kirkwood when spotted doesn't it?
RE: What Was The Role of David Herold - Laurie Verge - 03-27-2013 10:16 AM
No. Fletcher's statement would place him above the Kirkwood House and riding downtown towards the Kirkwood or the Navy Yard Bridge.
RE: What Was The Role of David Herold - wsanto - 03-27-2013 04:00 PM
I like the theory that Herold left Seward's once he knew Powell was inside and began the next phase of the operation---aiding Booth in his escape out of Washington.
This ties in with him stopping at the Kirkwood to recover items left there for the escape including Booth's coat, map, extra weapons. Of course he couldn't access Atzeodt's room and left for the Navy Yard Bridge. Although it is curious as to why they would have left these items in a room of the hotel where they were planning on assassinating Johnson.
(03-27-2013 10:04 AM)JMadonna Wrote:I stayed at the Willard recently. It is a very short (2-5 min) walk up 15th street around the Treasury Building and across the road to the site where Seward's house once stood.(03-26-2013 08:01 PM)L Verge Wrote: I pointed this out quite some time ago and was ignored. You and I may stand alone on this. I still think Herold was with Powell long enough to see Lew enter the Seward home and then headed off to check on Atzerodt and meet up with Booth.
If he went to check on Atzerodt, that means he came from the Kirkwood when spotted doesn't it?
Fletcher saw Herold in front of the Willard coming from the direction of the Treasury Building, presumably down and across 15th Street and cutting in front of the Willard down Pennsylvania Ave toward either the Kirkwood on 12th Street or further past the Capitol Building to the Navy Yard Bridge.
RE: What Was The Role of David Herold - Laurie Verge - 03-27-2013 04:43 PM
If we assume that George Atzerodt was not the brightest bulb in the chandelier on a good day and that he had been drinking on the night of April 14 to bolster his courage, I think it safe to say that he had very few thoughts going on in his mind other than what the heck to do next and how to extricate himself from the whole mess.
If I were to put myself in his shoes, I would have walked out of that hotel room, left everything in there (for lack of some way to carry it or dispose of it), locked the door behind me, and gotten the heck out of Dodge.
RE: What Was The Role of David Herold - RJNorton - 04-03-2013 03:11 PM
Many thanks to Art Loux for sending this interesting article. It comes from the Boston Daily Advertiser of July 8, 1865.
Art notes, "Shortly before his hanging Herold was quoted saying he “consented to see that Powell undertook his work” and then agreed to guide Booth and Powell through Maryland. See page 1 of attachments and the red marked paragraph. The reporter has garbled Herold’s words for certainly no one needed to “see” or assure Powell did his work. Whatever Herold's assignment it seems to have been with Powell. His sighting on 14th Street by stableman Fletcher is consistent with Herold coming from Seward’s house.
Also, the statement indicates Powell intended to go south with JWB rather than north to Baltimore."
![[Image: newspaperherold.jpg]](http://rogerjnorton.com/newspaperherold.jpg)
RE: What Was The Role of David Herold - KateH. - 04-03-2013 06:29 PM
Is there a link to the above article?
RE: What Was The Role of David Herold - RJNorton - 04-04-2013 05:22 AM
Kate, I did not post the entire article because it is so difficult to read (at least for my eyes). But I will send it to you via file attachment as well as anyone else who would like it. I tried to find it online, but I drew a blank; perhaps someone else can locate it online.
RE: What Was The Role of David Herold - Linda Anderson - 04-04-2013 08:46 AM
(04-04-2013 05:22 AM)RJNorton Wrote: Kate, I did not post the entire article because it is so difficult to read (at least for my eyes). But I will send it to you via file attachment as well as anyone else who would like it. I tried to find it online, but I drew a blank; perhaps someone else can locate it online.
Anyone who has a subscription to GenealogyBank can read the article online.
RE: What Was The Role of David Herold - KateH. - 04-04-2013 10:52 AM
Roger, thank you for sending the article. I'm currently reading it with my trusty magnifying glass.
RE: What Was The Role of David Herold - John Fazio - 04-05-2013 01:24 PM
(03-27-2013 04:55 AM)wsanto Wrote:(03-26-2013 08:01 PM)L Verge Wrote: I pointed this out quite some time ago and was ignored. You and I may stand alone on this. I still think Herold was with Powell long enough to see Lew enter the Seward home and then headed off to check on Atzerodt and meet up with Booth.
I agree Laurie. I think Fletcher's testimony cleary has Herold riding away from Seward's house and heading down Pennsylvania Ave toward either the Kirkwood at 12th and Pennsylvania or possibly to the Navy Yard Bridge when he is surprised by Fletcher's confrontation near the Willard and gallops away in a different direction.
Mr. (or Ms.) Santo and Laurie:
It sounds plausible, but where is the evidence? I believe I have shown that there is a lot of evidence placing Herold elsewhere that night and none (or at least none original) placing him with Powell. As far as where and when he was seen by Fletcher, and the direction in which he was traveling, it seems to me that everything was so close (i.e Seward's Mansion, Willard's Hotel, the Treasury Building, Ford's Theatre, etc.), that Fletcher's observations fit as easily with Herold being at Ford's and then going to Willard's at the critical time as they fit with any other scenario.
John
(04-03-2013 03:11 PM)RJNorton Wrote: Many thanks to Art Loux for sending this interesting article. It comes from the Boston Daily Advertiser of July 8, 1865.
Art notes, "Shortly before his hanging Herold was quoted saying he “consented to see that Powell undertook his work” and then agreed to guide Booth and Powell through Maryland. See page 1 of attachments and the red marked paragraph. The reporter has garbled Herold’s words for certainly no one needed to “see” or assure Powell did his work. Whatever Herold's assignment it seems to have been with Powell. His sighting on 14th Street by stableman Fletcher is consistent with Herold coming from Seward’s house.
Also, the statement indicates Powell intended to go south with JWB rather than north to Baltimore."
Roger:
This is an exciting find, which, I must grant, throws a somewhat different light on the issue. It tends to support Laurie's and others' view that Herold at least saw to Powell's entry to the Seward mansion, believing, quite understandably, that he could take it from there, never dreaming that his revolver would misfire. Still, it must be said that there is still plenty of evidence against it, including the articles re Ben, the servant of Seward's neighbors, the Tahoes, and what he is reported to have seen that night.
If you can send the article as an attachment I shall be very grateful to you.
John