+- Lincoln Discussion Symposium (https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium)
+-- Forum: Lincoln Discussion Symposium (/forum-1.html)
+--- Forum: Assassination (/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: Louis Weichmann (/thread-525.html)
RE: Louis Weichmann - RJNorton - 09-10-2015 01:59 PM
(09-10-2015 12:55 PM)L Verge Wrote: Supposedly, Louis was not the best of students and was into having fun and being disruptive.
If true he was not the only one of the folks we discuss on the forum who had behavior problems in school. Ed Steers talks about Dr. Samuel Mudd's experience at Georgetown College. Dr. Steers writes, "In 1853... he (Mudd) was expelled from the school, accused of being a ringleader in fomenting a riot among his classmates. In what must have been a humiliating moment for Sam's father, he was told to come take young Sam out of the school."
RE: Louis Weichmann - Eva Elisabeth - 09-10-2015 02:29 PM
(09-10-2015 10:53 AM)Pamela Wrote: So now Weichmann is to be taunted for the meaning of his name. Whatever floats your boat, have fun. But a quick Google search that I just did suggested warrior or battle+man. I'll leave it there as far as I'm concerned. I don't know the language.
I didn't intend to taunt Weichmann for his name (and the Germans are said to lack any sense of humor, just saying...). I have always been interested in name history and etymology. I posted this just FY('all) I as I thought some others might find such interesting too.
And quite often nomen indeed erat omen. In former times, families were often named after prominent/reoccurring jobs, like "Müller" (=Miller) and body- or character features, like "Kleinx (=small), or "Zorn" (=rage). Since Wiechmann is a typical Hanseatic name, greatly limited to the north, it makes sense Wiech/Wich comes from Wicht (or Wichtelmann), a northern folklore dwarf. Hanseactic people were and are merchants, trading by ship, never warriors. But they believed in all kinds of little mystical creatures living on their ships. I really think it was originally to "nick"name families of little average body height, because the Wicht was a typical symbol.
RE: Louis Weichmann - Pamela - 09-10-2015 04:54 PM
(09-10-2015 12:55 PM)L Verge Wrote: Speaking of making fun of Weichmann, it reminded me that he went to high school with George Alfred Townsend at Central High School in Philadelphia (according to GATH). Townsend later wrote a very sarcastic review of Weichmann after having chanced upon him on the street years later and remembering those school days, nicknames, etc. Supposedly, Louis was not the best of students and was into having fun and being disruptive. I believe that Louis wrote a rebuttal to that article when it appeared in print. Somewhere there is a similar reference to Surratt being the excellent, attentive student at St. Charles, while Weichmann liked to have fun. Maybe that's why the church fathers were not happy to have him readmitted?
Speaking of religion, I read somewhere that Louis's father was not Catholic. His mother was, and she was the one who practically forced Louis to study for the priesthood. Maybe he was a rebellious student for that reason?
Pamela did provide us with information concerning Mrs. Weichmann being involved with the Temperance movement, but if she had to resort to taking in boarders in order to survive after Louis moved to Anderson, it wouldn't appear that her social activities provided any support. In the Victorian age, it would not have been atypical for other members of such activist groups to take destitute women under their roof -- or family members would assume responsibility for their support. Wonder why someone didn't step forward?
As to who has "shafted" Louis over the years, it is my belief that authors have relied on statements, etc. that were given close to the time of the assassination and two trials - as well as analysis of Weichmann's own writings in A True History... As to the abuse that he was given early on, much of it came from defenders of the church and of Mary Surratt. In my view, they considered the man a traitor to Mary and to the Catholic Church at a time when Catholics continued to face bigotry in many areas of society.
I would love to think that my next project could be locating the ORIGINAL manuscript prepared by Louis Weichmann before the job of editing and publishing it was done by Floyd Risvold 70+ years after being completed by Louis himself. Having been an editor (both paid and volunteer) over the past 40+ years, I know that editors can add, detract, substitute, and insinuate when preparing final copy.
Floyd Risvold was very well-respected, and I don't want to cast doubt on his work. However, he was (above all else) very high on the food chain in the business world (I believe retail), and had to know that Louis's manuscript could prove very profitable in the hands of the right publisher. It would be interesting to compare the original with the published version.
Annie taught boys school for 12 years before she married Louis. She quit to keep house for her widowed father, which despite having lost their fortune to a shyster lawyer named Broadbent, I'm sure included a servant or two or three The picture I posted of her was at age 82 when she travelled to Iowa to visit her family. She could have resumed teaching if she wanted. She travelled to Belfast, Ireland for the Grand Templar Lodge in 1906, four years after Louis's death and more than 20 years after they separated. She was the Treasurer of her chapter. Annie was not destitute, even though whatever financial arrangements she made with Louis must have ended with his death. During their marriage she travelled to London, Chicago and Minnesota with the Good Templars. The activities of the London meeting are all online, described in detail in a newspaper report. I believe Louis stayed at home with her father, who her brother's descendant told me was a "curmudgeon" and paid for her avocation. I never saw his name mentioned in the rosters and he wouldn't have been able to leave his job for weeks and months at a time. She was a Good Templar for 56 years. Good Templars were her pallbearers. She was described as "zealous" by her fellow zealots. I've posted this information already on this thread.
In his book, Louis said why his mother wanted him to be a priest--a brother died, I don't know at what age. I assume her parents were comforted greatly by a priest, and she thought it was a wonderful thing. Risvold described his editing of the book, which was minimal, in the forward. You can probably contact his descendants and query them, but do you really think he would have intentionally distorted or destroyed historical documents for a buck, which he had plenty of already?
I consider anything Abel and the crazy pastors said to be highly suspect.
RE: Louis Weichmann - Eva Elisabeth - 09-10-2015 05:19 PM
He said he "had but little heart for the profession chosen".
Just curious - what was so special about this theological seminary in Baltimore that he only tried -but even twice- to pursue the priesthood businesses there? He obviously didn't try anywhere else. Or was there no other appropriate institution?
RE: Louis Weichmann - L Verge - 09-10-2015 05:41 PM
"I've posted this information already on this thread." Yes, you did, but none of it answers my question as to why Annie Weichmann was evidently reduced to taking in boarders when Louis left her. Had she spent all of her father's money (obviously enough was left after the shyster got through) on her travels with her avocation?
RE: Louis Weichmann - Susan Higginbotham - 09-10-2015 06:38 PM
Is there documentation (aside from a relative's recollection) supporting the claim that a lawyer swindled Annie Weichmann's father?
RE: Louis Weichmann - Pamela - 09-10-2015 07:36 PM
(09-10-2015 06:38 PM)Susan Higginbotham Wrote: Is there documentation (aside from a relative's recollection) supporting the claim that a lawyer swindled Annie Weichmann's father?
I looked for the lawyer but had no luck. There were a lot of Broadbents in Philadelphia. Maybe another researcher can find something, in the newspapers or court records. My research skills are limited to Google and ancestry. Annie had a sister who never married, she was the one who brought the shyster into the family circle. I believe she taught school, also, and lived with them.
I wondered what was behind her zealotry, and just guessing, but perhaps there was alcoholism in her family; maybe her dad. It's hard to imagine that kind of passion for temperance without a negative life experience to drive her.
Maybe after she and Louis separated she felt that her time would be freer if they took in boarders, as opposed to her resuming teaching. Maybe boarders would give her father a challenge, since he never worked other than managing his properties. His occupation was listed as ice dealer, flour dealer, but maybe he only dabbled in those things through the properties he owned. On his death certificate his occupation was listed as "gentleman". I think Annie's brother was successful somewhere out west in distribution related to agriculture.
RE: Louis Weichmann - L Verge - 09-10-2015 07:53 PM
"Risvold described his editing of the book, which was minimal, in the forward. You can probably contact his descendants and query them, but do you really think he would have intentionally distorted or destroyed historical documents for a buck, which he had plenty of already?"
I re-read the foreword several days ago (and was pleased to remember that he had given great credit to James O. Hall for his assistance). Mr. Hall would have kept him on the straight and narrow in editing, I believe; but there are times when meanings are misconstrued by editors (and the originator is not around for clarification). Back in the early-1970s, publishers also had editors on staff who could delete or rewrite. The original publication was through Knopf & Sons (with whom Hall had a contract), and they were one of the best in the publishing field at that time. We can only hope that their editor(s) were diligent in keeping to the original as much as possible.
In answer to your other question about editorial ethics: I certainly hope that his work was not driven by capitalism (which I support), but once a businessman, always a businessman?
I assume that Louis had rejected his church when he married Annie? They were married in an Episcopal Church. Also, Catholics and societies which operate according to rituals have generally been like oil and water - especially in the 19th and early-20th centuries. For Louis to accept and put up with his wife's devotion to the Knights Templar seems unusual to me. More power to him if he was a man ahead of his times in accepting his wife's ideas. Just a thought: How did Annie justify taking communion in her church when the Episcopalians use wine? My great-grandparents, the Huntts, were members of a similar temperance society known as the Sons of Jonadab, but they were staunch Methodists who preferred communion grape juice.
RE: Louis Weichmann - Pamela - 09-10-2015 08:08 PM
Well, temperance groups may have been OK with temperate use of spirits, like in communion, which wouldn' t have caused drunkeness.
RE: Louis Weichmann - L Verge - 09-10-2015 08:19 PM
"It was forgotten until Weichmann’s great niece offered it to Minnesota collector Floyd Risvold, who acquired it for an undisclosed sum and saw to its publication (by Alfred Knopf) in 1975. The memoir turned out to be nothing more than a self-serving vindication, full of cleverly twisted statements, inconsistencies, contradictions, tampering with dates, and perhaps even a few fabrications. (Risvold later told the Lincoln Fellowship of Wisconsin that from his own research he was sure Mrs. Surratt knew about the kidnap plot.)"
Critique is part of a full article on Oldroyd meeting Weichmann written by Lincoln/Lincoln assassination expert Richard Sloan. The article appeared in a 2012 issue of the newsletter of the Lincoln Forum. Richard is the one who discovered letters of correspondence between Oldroyd and Weichmann (I believe including Oldroyd's decision to let Weichmann write his own chapter in Oldroyd's classic).
RE: Louis Weichmann - Pamela - 09-10-2015 08:34 PM
Sloan might have been a tad hasty in his critique. Weichmann's book is referenced frequently by historians, I've noticed, so it's a useful resource. I love the book and I think Roger has said the same. Dr. Porter and A.C. Richards, who were a part of the assassination drama, who witnessed Weichmann's trial testimony, etc, had nothing but praise for Weichmann's manuscript. I' ll take their opinions over Sloan any time.
(09-10-2015 08:19 PM)L Verge Wrote: "It was forgotten until Weichmann’s great niece offered it to Minnesota collector Floyd Risvold, who acquired it for an undisclosed sum and saw to its publication (by Alfred Knopf) in 1975. The memoir turned out to be nothing more than a self-serving vindication, full of cleverly twisted statements, inconsistencies, contradictions, tampering with dates, and perhaps even a few fabrications. (Risvold later told the Lincoln Fellowship of Wisconsin that from his own research he was sure Mrs. Surratt knew about the kidnap plot.)"
Critique is part of a full article on Oldroyd meeting Weichmann written by Lincoln/Lincoln assassination expert Richard Sloan. The article appeared in a 2012 issue of the newsletter of the Lincoln Forum. Richard is the one who discovered letters of correspondence between Oldroyd and Weichmann (I believe including Oldroyd's decision to let Weichmann write his own chapter in Oldroyd's classic).
I believe she was Weichmann' s neice, not great niece, the daughter of his sister Elizabeth. Interestingly, she was described as a "bohemian free spirit", she was an actor, lived in Springfield, Illinois, and married an Abraham.
RE: Louis Weichmann - L Verge - 09-10-2015 09:06 PM
I may have missed this, but were Porter and Richards even alive when the manuscript was sold to Risvold? Had they read the manuscript previous to that?
RE: Louis Weichmann - Pamela - 09-10-2015 09:30 PM
Long dead, of course.
This book contains letters from Weichmann referencing his manuscript.
https://archive.org/details/surgeonincharge00port
Apparently Holt read part or all of his manuscript since this quote appears at the beginning of Weichmann's book:
I am anxious before I pass away to know that this vindication of yourself has been laid before the country, and to know further that it has been accepted as a triumphant response to the calmness of the past. J. Holt, May 29, 1893
RE: Louis Weichmann - RJNorton - 09-11-2015 05:13 AM
(09-10-2015 08:34 PM)Pamela Wrote: I love the book and I think Roger has said the same.
Hi Pam. I do like the book and consider it an all-important resource. At the same time I was very serious when I made my comparison to Herndon's writings. Over the past 3+ years this forum has had many, many discussions of Herndon. We have learned that we simply cannot accept everything Herndon says as 100% true. Still, he provides an irreplaceable resource when studying Lincoln's life. I view Weichmann's book in the same way - a key resource that should be read with a judicious, discerning eye.
RE: Louis Weichmann - Eva Elisabeth - 09-11-2015 05:25 AM
(09-11-2015 05:13 AM)RJNorton Wrote:Pamela, just to clarify, I agreed on that - like the book and consider it an all-important resource but am sceptical all he says is true (or the entire truth).(09-10-2015 08:34 PM)Pamela Wrote: I love the book and I think Roger has said the same.
Hi Pam. I do like the book and consider it an all-important resource. At the same time I was very serious when I made my comparison to Herndon's writings. Over the past 3+ years this forum has had many, many discussions of Herndon. We have learned that we simply cannot accept everything Herndon says as 100% true. Still, he provides an irreplaceable resource when studying Lincoln's life. I view Weichmann's book in the same way - a key resource that should be read with a judicious, discerning eye.