+- Lincoln Discussion Symposium (https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium)
+-- Forum: Lincoln Discussion Symposium (/forum-1.html)
+--- Forum: Assassination (/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: Which door did Booth enter? (/thread-500.html)
Which door did Booth enter? - RJNorton - 11-17-2012 01:55 PM
Did Booth enter the State Box through the door to Box 7 or Box 8? Mike Kauffman points out in his new book that Booth entered through the open door to Box 8, which means he did not open the closed door in back of Lincoln in Box 7. I believe the door to Box 7 had the peephole.
Mike Kauffman writes, "Most authors have assumed that Booth entered through the door to Box 7, which was just behind the president's chair. But from this spot escape would have been impossible. This was a very narrow space with just enough room for the president's rocker and nothing else. Standing here, Booth would have found his path blocked by the wounded president. On the other hand, the Box 8 door was left open, and all the assassin had to do was take a step inside and look to his left for a clear shot as his victim."
Opinions?
RE: Which door did Booth enter? - Dave Taylor - 11-17-2012 03:45 PM
Roger, I agree with Kauffman completely that Booth entered through box 8 and not 7 as Ford's has it set up. Rathbone's account completely supports this. Read the comment section on my post about Rathbone's account: http://boothiebarn.com/2012/06/10/thoughts-from-major-rathbone/
RE: Which door did Booth enter? - RJNorton - 11-17-2012 03:58 PM
Thanks, Dave. I was going by the National Park Service sketch which looks ( to my eyes anyway) that the peephole was in the door to Box 7.
![[Image: passagewaystatebox.jpg]](http://rogerjnorton.com/passagewaystatebox.jpg)
RE: Which door did Booth enter? - Gene C - 11-17-2012 04:09 PM
Dave,
thanks for posting the link to you blog article. I am interested in the diagram of the theater box. While watching the history channel show about President Lincoln's assassination, the actual furniture looks smaller in the illustration. On the documentary, the box looks very crowded with Mary's chair (which appeared to be quite small) almost dirrectly in front of the couch and closer to the Presidents chair than in the photo (almost touching his) It also looks like you couldn't open door G without hitting the Presidents chair.
So in matching the diagram on your blog, is the door to box 8, "G" in the diagram. I can't see how a peep hole in door "F" would afford a view of the President. Was Clara Harris sitting on the couch closer to Mrs. Lincoln.
RE: Which door did Booth enter? - Peter Taltavul - 11-17-2012 04:23 PM
This is a subject that has interested me for a very long time.
I have never heard that the door to Box 8 was open, or that the peephole was in that door. I would never pit my amateur understanding of the events against the experts, but your question is interesting and does lead to additional ones. If I may.
Booth learned Friday morning that the President would be attending the theatre that evening. I cannot recall whether he was told that Gen. Grant would accompany the President or not. Sometime later in the day he may have become aware that Grant would not be be there. I say that because of a previous post.
That Friday John Ford - with assistance - prepared the boxes for the Presidential visit that evening. Sometime after that - if everyone is correct - JWB gained entry to the area carved a small hole in the door and somehow secreted a music stand to stop others from outside to get in during the deed. If security was an issue why would the door to box 7 be closed and box 8 open. Does not make sense. But if it was -
I believe that I read that the President had watched a play at Ford's when JWB was an actor. Was there a specific box set aside for the President in case of a visit? In other words- which box was the Presidential box? If it was box 7 why would the peephole be in box 8? And if JWB did indeed view the Presidential box that evening and saw that the Lincoln's were not alone what impact would that have on his plan as to which door to go though?
Booth's plan was obviously to commit the deed and escape. The trajectory of the bullet fired at the President may answer the question as to which door he may he went through.
If Booth entered box 7 and if the bullet entry into the President's head was by the left ear Lincoln would have to have been watching the events on the stage - slightly to his right. If Booth would have entered box 8 the President would have to have been leaning forward and looking to the audience at his left for that to occur.
Easy to say at this point in history - but one would expect that to take the shortest path to the goal is the objective. Walking the extra feet from box 8 to the President would not be the best course - who knows?
More to say, but I will wait until this Moore knowledgable than me have weighed in. ...M
RE: Which door did Booth enter? - Dave Taylor - 11-17-2012 04:27 PM
Wait, I made a mistake. The hole was bored into the door to box 7 not 8. I was thinking of the engraving you posted, Roger. I'm out running errands so my apologies. I still believe Booth entered door 8 though.
RE: Which door did Booth enter? - Peter Taltavul - 11-17-2012 04:31 PM
(11-17-2012 03:45 PM)Dave Taylor Wrote: Roger, I agree with Kauffman completely that Booth entered through box 8 and not 7 as Ford's has it set up. Rathbone's account completely supports this. Read the comment section on my post about Rathbone's account: http://boothiebarn.com/2012/06/10/thoughts-from-major-rathbone/
(11-17-2012 04:23 PM)Peter Taltavul Wrote: This is a subject that has interested me for a very long time.
I have never heard that the door to Box 8 was open, or that the peephole was in that door. I would never pit my amateur understanding of the events against the experts, but your question is interesting and does lead to additional ones. If I may.
Booth learned Friday morning that the President would be attending the theatre that evening. I cannot recall whether he was told that Gen. Grant would accompany the President or not. Sometime later in the day he may have become aware that Grant would not be be there. I say that because of a previous post.
That Friday John Ford - with assistance - prepared the boxes for the Presidential visit that evening. Sometime after that - if everyone is correct - JWB gained entry to the area carved a small hole in the door and somehow secreted a music stand to stop others from outside to get in during the deed. If security was an issue why would the door to box 7 be closed and box 8 open. Does not make sense. But if it was -
I believe that I read that the President had watched a play at Ford's when JWB was an actor. Was there a specific box set aside for the President in case of a visit? In other words- which box was the Presidential box? If it was box 7 why would the peephole be in box 8? And if JWB did indeed view the Presidential box that evening and saw that the Lincoln's were not alone what impact would that have on his plan as to which door to go though?
Booth's plan was obviously to commit the deed and escape. The trajectory of the bullet fired at the President may answer the question as to which door he may he went through.
If Booth entered box 7 and if the bullet entry into the President's head was by the left ear Lincoln would have to have been watching the events on the stage - slightly to his right. If Booth would have entered box 8 the President would have to have been leaning forward and looking to the audience at his left for that to occur.
Easy to say at this point in history - but one would expect that to take the shortest path to the goal is the objective. Walking the extra feet from box 8 to the President would not be the best course - who knows?
More to say, but I will wait until this Moore knowledgable than me have weighed in. ...M
Good to read this account, but what I do not see is actual quotes from Rathbone. Unless I overlooked something. If there are direct quotes from Major R I would. Love to see them,
RE: Which door did Booth enter? - Dave Taylor - 11-17-2012 04:37 PM
Peter, the original hand written statement starts here: http://www.fold3.com/image/#249%7C7413018
It's also transcribed in Edwards and Steers', The Lincoln Assassination: The Evidence.
RE: Which door did Booth enter? - Craig Hipkins - 11-17-2012 04:43 PM
Interesting topic. This may be common knowledge, but does anyone know what hand Booth fired his Derringer with? Was Booth right-handed or left handed? Would this have made a difference as to where Booth was standing when he fired the shot in the back of Lincoln's head?
Reviewing Dr. Lattimer's version in his book he states that:(page 21) "Booth stepped quickly through the door in the end of the little anteroom, turned sharply to his left behind Mrs. Lincoln's chair, pointed his single-shot derringer pistol at the right side of President Lincoln's head, and pulled the trigger."
Turning sharply to the left would seem to indicate and support Mike Kauffman's belief that Booth entered through box #8. If Booth had entered through box #7 would he have not fired into the left side of the President's skull?
Craig
RE: Which door did Booth enter? - L Verge - 11-17-2012 06:50 PM
Until about forty years ago, I had always thought Booth entered via Box 7, the same door that he had bored the hole in. However, I then began working with James O. Hall in developing the first of the Surratt bus tours over the escape route of Booth and found out that evidence indicated that Booth entered via Box 8.
I believe that Dr. Lattimer's description may be correct in where Booth aimed, but descriptions also exist that Lincoln leaned forward and turned his head at that second to see something in the audience - leaving the bullet to enter the left side of his brain.
RE: Which door did Booth enter? - Peter Taltavul - 11-17-2012 07:29 PM
(11-17-2012 06:50 PM)L Verge Wrote: Until about forty years ago, I had always thought Booth entered via Box 7, the same door that he had bored the hole in. However, I then began working with James O. Hall in developing the first of the Surratt bus tours over the escape route of Booth and found out that evidence indicated that Booth entered via Box 8.
I believe that Dr. Lattimer's description may be correct in where Booth aimed, but descriptions also exist that Lincoln leaned forward and turned his head at that second to see something in the audience - leaving the bullet to enter the left side of his brain.
May I ask - was Dr. Lattimer a witness that night? Did he see actually see the President shot? My work as an independent investigator prompts me to ask the question. And in regards to the posting of the Rathbone statement - that is not directly from him, but attributed from him. I would like to see where Major R said that Booth entered the Presidential box from box 8.
And of course if Booth did enter box 8 ( or even 7) knowing that the President and Mrs. Lincoln were not alone all the more reason for committing the crime with more than single shot derringer. Sorry- does not pass the smell test at least as of 2012.
RE: Which door did Booth enter? - L Verge - 11-17-2012 07:48 PM
Dr. John K. Lattimer was a 20th-century medical doctor, highly ranked in the medical field, very experienced with WWII soldiers' wounds as a field doctor, a doctor at the Nuremberg Trials, practitioner to the famous (Garbo, Monroe, and others), first civilian doctor to be allowed to investigate the forensic aspects of the Kennedy assassination - at the request of the Kennedy family - etc. Dr. Lattimer passed away in 2007, leaving an extensive collection of assassination memorabilia in addition to other oddities. I was fortunate to know him and respect his work (for the most part).
In our field, he was well-known for his extensive ballistics' examinations related to the Lincoln assassination and wrote a book on comparisons between the Lincoln and Kennedy crimes. Some of his findings are being challenged, however, by others with not as much medical experience as his.
Should or do investigators consider the element of surprise that assassins count on? To me, that is one of the greatest attributes that Booth had in making a successful entry, head shot, and escape.
RE: Which door did Booth enter? - LincolnMan - 11-17-2012 09:09 PM
I guess one question to consider is how much space was actually available to Booth if he used Box door 7? How close to the door was the rocker? Was it physically possible that Booth was able to enter through door 7 and fire off the shot with the space that was there?
RE: Which door did Booth enter? - Wesley Harris - 11-17-2012 09:57 PM
The NPS Ford's Theatre website: Frank Ford, the son of Harry Clay Ford, later said that his father had the hole cut in the door so the guard could look in on the Presidential party without having to open the door.
RE: Which door did Booth enter? - Peter Taltavul - 11-17-2012 10:54 PM
(11-17-2012 09:57 PM)Wesley Harris Wrote: The NPS Ford's Theatre website: Frank Ford, the son of Harry Clay Ford, later said that his father had the hole cut in the door so the guard could look in on the Presidential party without having to open the door.
So even after all of this time is there disagreement among historians about the peephole in the door? Who carved it? Which door? If the door to box 8 why not box 7 if that was the normal Presidential box?