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+--- Thread: Does anyone know...? (/thread-3470.html)
Does anyone know...? - L Verge - 09-06-2017 07:21 PM
I have received a request for a photo of the stable in Baptist Alley where Booth's horse was kept. So far, my staff and I have not been able to find one.
One thought that we had was that a photo or engraving might have been done in 1869, when Booth's body was at the Harvey & Meirs undertaking business adjacent to the alley. Any thoughts, clues, or the photo itself???
RE: Does anyone know...? - John Fazio - 09-06-2017 07:44 PM
(09-06-2017 07:21 PM)L Verge Wrote: I have received a request for a photo of the stable in Baptist Alley where Booth's horse was kept. So far, my staff and I have not been able to find one.
One thought that we had was that a photo or engraving might have been done in 1869, when Booth's body was at the Harvey & Meirs undertaking business adjacent to the alley. Any thoughts, clues, or the photo itself???
Laurie:
This is a drawing, not a photo, but it's better than nothing, so far.
John
http://www.mrlincolnswhitehouse.org/washington/hotels-and-other-public-buildings/hotels-public-buildings-fords-theater/john-wilkes-booth-stable/
RE: Does anyone know...? - Steve - 09-06-2017 08:28 PM
Does this picture gallery help? -
https://boothiebarn.com/picture-galleries/baptist-alley/
RE: Does anyone know...? - RJNorton - 09-07-2017 04:16 AM
I think the images on the links John and Steve posted are accurate. I do not know what other folks have read, but I have seen the location of Booth's horse behind the theater described more as a "shed" rather than what I might think of as an ordinary looking stable. I think I own over 70 assassination books, and I do not think I have ever seen an actual photo of it.
RE: Does anyone know...? - L Verge - 09-07-2017 10:33 AM
Thanks, everyone. I cut and pasted your responses directly to the gentleman as well as to my staff and librarian.
RE: Does anyone know...? - Dennis Urban - 09-07-2017 02:37 PM
I have always been intrigued by this stable bc of its apparent small size (at least according to the drawing) and the fact that it was so far removed from the immediate rear of Ford's. I am familiar with the BothieBarn photos and drawings. Somewhere I recall reading the "stable" was large enough to hold a horse and buggy (which was later sold at Booth's request by Spangler, I believe). The drawings do not seem to depict a space sufficient for a horse and buggy. The stable is just out of the photo on BoothieBarn that shows the residences of the two ladies who lived in the alley behind the theatre. Too bad the camera was not turned 180 degrees to show the rest of the alley. Oh, to go back in time...
RE: Does anyone know...? - RJNorton - 09-07-2017 03:54 PM
(09-07-2017 02:37 PM)Dennis Urban Wrote: Somewhere I recall reading the "stable" was large enough to hold a horse and buggy (which was later sold at Booth's request by Spangler, I believe).
Right on, Dennis. Here is what Spangler wrote in the statement Dr. Mudd found in Spangler's tool chest shortly after his death:
"On the Monday evening previous to the assassination, Booth requested me to sell the horse, harness, and buggy, as he said he should leave the city soon. I took them the next morning to the horse market, and had them put up at auction, with the instruction not to sell unless they would net two hundred and sixty dollars; this was in accordance with Booth's orders to me. As no person bid sufficient to make them net that amount, they were not sold, and I took them back to the stable. I informed Booth of the result that same evening in front of the theater. He replied that he must then try and have them sold at private sale, and asked me if I would help him. I replied, "Yes." This was about six o'clock in the evening, and the conversation took place in the presence of John F. Sleichman and others. The next day I sold them for two hundred and sixty dollars. The purchaser accompanied me to the theater. Booth was not in, and the money was paid to James J. Gifford, who receipted for it. I did not see Booth to speak to him, after the sale, until the evening of the assassination."
RE: Does anyone know...? - Dennis Urban - 09-07-2017 05:44 PM
(09-07-2017 03:54 PM)RJNorton Wrote:Thanks, Roger. I do remember reading that statement of Spangler. Thanks for reminding me from whence it came. Hard for me in my old age to remember where I read some of this cool stuff. Too bad we don't know what kind of buggy it was. For $260 it must have been pretty decent and large enough to carry the kidnapped Lincoln on the floor.(09-07-2017 02:37 PM)Dennis Urban Wrote: Somewhere I recall reading the "stable" was large enough to hold a horse and buggy (which was later sold at Booth's request by Spangler, I believe).
Right on, Dennis. Here is what Spangler wrote in the statement Dr. Mudd found in Spangler's tool chest shortly after his death:
"On the Monday evening previous to the assassination, Booth requested me to sell the horse, harness, and buggy, as he said he should leave the city soon. I took them the next morning to the horse market, and had them put up at auction, with the instruction not to sell unless they would net two hundred and sixty dollars; this was in accordance with Booth's orders to me. As no person bid sufficient to make them net that amount, they were not sold, and I took them back to the stable. I informed Booth of the result that same evening in front of the theater. He replied that he must then try and have them sold at private sale, and asked me if I would help him. I replied, "Yes." This was about six o'clock in the evening, and the conversation took place in the presence of John F. Sleichman and others. The next day I sold them for two hundred and sixty dollars. The purchaser accompanied me to the theater. Booth was not in, and the money was paid to James J. Gifford, who receipted for it. I did not see Booth to speak to him, after the sale, until the evening of the assassination."
RE: Does anyone know...? - L Verge - 09-07-2017 06:46 PM
(09-07-2017 05:44 PM)Dennis Urban Wrote:(09-07-2017 03:54 PM)RJNorton Wrote:Thanks, Roger. I do remember reading that statement of Spangler. Thanks for reminding me from whence it came. Hard for me in my old age to remember where I read some of this cool stuff. Too bad we don't know what kind of buggy it was. For $260 it must have been pretty decent and large enough to carry the kidnapped Lincoln on the floor.(09-07-2017 02:37 PM)Dennis Urban Wrote: Somewhere I recall reading the "stable" was large enough to hold a horse and buggy (which was later sold at Booth's request by Spangler, I believe).
Right on, Dennis. Here is what Spangler wrote in the statement Dr. Mudd found in Spangler's tool chest shortly after his death:
"On the Monday evening previous to the assassination, Booth requested me to sell the horse, harness, and buggy, as he said he should leave the city soon. I took them the next morning to the horse market, and had them put up at auction, with the instruction not to sell unless they would net two hundred and sixty dollars; this was in accordance with Booth's orders to me. As no person bid sufficient to make them net that amount, they were not sold, and I took them back to the stable. I informed Booth of the result that same evening in front of the theater. He replied that he must then try and have them sold at private sale, and asked me if I would help him. I replied, "Yes." This was about six o'clock in the evening, and the conversation took place in the presence of John F. Sleichman and others. The next day I sold them for two hundred and sixty dollars. The purchaser accompanied me to the theater. Booth was not in, and the money was paid to James J. Gifford, who receipted for it. I did not see Booth to speak to him, after the sale, until the evening of the assassination."
I think the $260 included the horse and harness, and I bet that the horse was worth the most.
RE: Does anyone know...? - L Verge - 09-08-2017 07:28 PM
The more I look at the engraving from Leslie's, the more I'm inclined to think that the short, middle "building," in front of which the man stands, is actually a gated area that is wide open space between the stable to the left (flat roof) and the "carriage house" to the right (more peaked roof). The buggy and the horse were in separate shelters with space between for entry and exit - and a locked door for security. Just one "shed" would have to be big enough to hold a horse (pretty big creature) and a buggy (they're pretty large also, even a two-seater).
There were buildings in that alley that also housed alley dwellers (very common in DC and most large cities). You see those in one of the displays on BoothieBarn. Spangler was both keeper and protector of that horse and buggy, probably; however, John Ford said that Peanuts was the hostler.
RE: Does anyone know...? - Dennis Urban - 09-09-2017 10:38 AM
Laurie, I had the same thought about that Leslie engraving. Too bad it did not show more area to the right and left of what looks like simply the gated area between the horse stall and the buggy shelter. I also recall reading somewhere that Booth owned two horses at one time so this stall area may have been large enough for two. Even a small two person single horse buggy with the shaft would likely be at least 12 ft. in length. When one thinks about the radius needed to back the buggy into the shelter after unhitching the horse in the alley and the space needed for the horse(s), the width of the area needed was probably at least 30 feet. Perhaps I am over-thinking this space.
RE: Does anyone know...? - RJNorton - 09-09-2017 12:36 PM
(09-07-2017 05:44 PM)Dennis Urban Wrote: For $260 it must have been pretty decent and large enough to carry the kidnapped Lincoln on the floor.
Dennis and everyone: Is it known for certain that this is the buggy Booth and boys were planning on using for the kidnapping?
RE: Does anyone know...? - L Verge - 09-09-2017 01:47 PM
(09-09-2017 12:36 PM)RJNorton Wrote:(09-07-2017 05:44 PM)Dennis Urban Wrote: For $260 it must have been pretty decent and large enough to carry the kidnapped Lincoln on the floor.
Dennis and everyone: Is it known for certain that this is the buggy Booth and boys were planning on using for the kidnapping?
I was under the opinion that the President would be captured in his own carriage and rushed out of the city and on to Charles County. Necessary items (like the carbines) had been sent ahead with Herold in another conveyance, so maybe it was this buggy -- if it had room to hide the rifles, rope, heavy-duty wrench, etc.???
RE: Does anyone know...? - Dennis Urban - 09-09-2017 06:47 PM
When I mentioned Booth's buggy in relation to the kidnapping, I had no historical information from which to make that remark. Booth, however, was an accomplished rider, so why would he have a buggy? Perhaps for rides with his ladies or perhaps for some sinister purpose. Does any historical information exist as to when Booth purchased the buggy. He traveled a great deal by rail to various cities and also rented horses, so why the buggy?
RE: Does anyone know...? - JMadonna - 09-10-2017 08:01 AM
(09-09-2017 06:47 PM)Dennis Urban Wrote: He traveled a great deal by rail to various cities and also rented horses, so why the buggy?
The buggy was primarily used by Mary Surratt to pick up travelers (spies) at the rail station and travel between her house in the city and Surratsville. IMO it was to enhance confederate operations in Washington.